Monster Manual Edition War: The Game!

[Raven Crowking]

I'm assuming that we'd flip AC.

Why? I thought the idea was to compare how the creatures would do, as written. "I guess if the nymph's attack uses 1e rules, the creature gets a 1e save (with its 4e bonus)" does the 1e nymph get 4e hit points, attacks, and AC? If not, why not?

I personally think it would be more fun/interesting if we assumed that the creatures are exactly as written, and that each creature uses its own ruleset by the closest adherence to RAW we can manage. So, if a 1e creature grapples, you use the 1e DMG method. You would get more "Huh!" moments that way. It would also highlight strange simularities and differences. The 1e, 2e, and 3e creatures, for example, get only one save, so if they fail it they never get another chance to "save ends"!

RC

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why?

Because if we don't, it will be hard for anything past 3Ed to miss all those otherwise tough MM creatures from 1Ed & 2Ed MMs...

"-10AC? The 4Ed goblin busboy (minion) only misses that archfiend on a 1!!! This is going to be a short fight!"

 

[Raven Crowking]

Because if we don't, it will be hard for anything past 3Ed to miss all those otherwise tough MM creatures from 1Ed & 2Ed MMs...

"-10AC? The 4Ed goblin busboy (minion) only misses that archfiend on a 1!!! This is going to be a short fight!"

But a funny fight.

 

[the Jester]

Aha, but a 1e monster will say "make a save vs. Poison"- so you could argue that that gives our poor 4e guy a saving throw (base 10+).

Re: AC flipping- it works exactly the same except for the direction the numbers go in, so that's why I thought it would be assumed.

 

[Stoat]

Attacks that require a saving throw in 3.X simply target the equivalent defense in 4E. In other words, the nymph requires the victim to make a DC 17 Fort save in 3.5. In 4E, that's identical to an attack against the victim's Fort. defense with a +7 bonus.

What 4E calls a "saving throw" doesn't really exist in previous editions.

The $64,000 question is how to convert the 5 saves used for 1E and 2E to the 3 saves/defenses used in 3.X and 4E.

 

[the Jester]

How do you set the DC or attack bonus for a 1e or 2e creature?

There were no such things.

 

[Stoat]

I was wondering (idly, without bothering to check) whether 3e or 4e monsters have more hit points at the high end of the MMs. I wonder if a 3e balor or pit fiend has more than a 4e balor or pit fiend, for instance.

The 3.5 Balor has 290 hit points.
The 4E Balor has 622.

The 3.5 Pit Fiend has 225 hit points.
The 4E Pit Fiend has 486

All 3.5 numbers taken from d20srd.org.
All 4E numbers taken from the Compendium.

 

[Stoat]

How do you set the DC or attack bonus for a 1e or 2e creature?

There were no such things.

That's one reason reconciling the 1E/2E saves with the 3E/4E saves is the $64,000 question.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Aha, but a 1e monster will say "make a save vs. Poison"- so you could argue that that gives our poor 4e guy a saving throw (base 10+).

Actually, lots of monsters don't specify that you make saves, instead saying "X occurs unless a save is made".

Re: AC flipping- it works exactly the same except for the direction the numbers go in, so that's why I thought it would be assumed.

My way is still funnier.

Attacks that require a saving throw in 3.X simply target the equivalent defense in 4E. In other words, the nymph requires the victim to make a DC 17 Fort save in 3.5. In 4E, that's identical to an attack against the victim's Fort. defense with a +7 bonus.

What 4E calls a "saving throw" doesn't really exist in previous editions.

The $64,000 question is how to convert the 5 saves used for 1E and 2E to the 3 saves/defenses used in 3.X and 4E.

Nah. Run 'em as written, convert nothing, and glory in the chaos.

It's funnier that way!


RC

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But a funny fight.

Yep, 'cause it works both ways!

Considering AC 10 was "naked" in 1Ed/2Ed, there will be serious bonuses to hit those late edition ACs in the 20s and up!