Monster Manual IV needs errata before its publishing?

[Infiniti2000]

I think you should make something better than stating that I'm wrong without supporting your staement.

Tell me where's the difference between having all the MPWs and being proficient in all martial weapons.

Please.

I thought I did. Let me try to explain it as an analogy instead.

Let's say I get an unlimited supply of oranges for my personal consumption for free. You, however, have to pay for it. We both get the same supply and a possible unlimited amount, but is there a difference? Of course there is.

 

[Egres]

I thought I did. Let me try to explain it as an analogy instead.

Let's say I get an unlimited supply of oranges for my personal consumption for free. You, however, have to pay for it. We both get the same supply and a possible unlimited amount, but is there a difference? Of course there is.

Your example is flawed, since MWs aren't unlimited.

Not to mention that I have asked many times what would be your answer if limited to the core system.

Besides that, the fact that my Bard pays for all of his MWPa is meaningless.(unless you can explain me why that would make a difference)

 

[Infiniti2000]

Your example is flawed, since MWs aren't unlimited.

How does that make the analogy flawed? Change it from unlimited to some number, like 100.

Not to mention that I have asked many times what would be your answer if limited to the core system.

You mean the core system in which you violate the rules to come up with an example? Show me, in the core system, how a bard gets enough feats to become proficient in every MW.

So, for your purposes, you can violate the core, but anyone responding to your points has to follow your rules? That's not the way logical and coherent debate works, I'm sorry to inform you.

Besides that, the fact that my Bard pays for all of his MWPa is meaningless.(unless you can explain me why that would make a difference)

It's not meaningless, it's the difference.

 

[Egres]

You mean the core system in which you violate the rules to come up with an example? Show me, in the core system, how a bard gets enough feats to become proficient in every MW.

So, for your purposes, you can violate the core, but anyone responding to your points has to follow your rules? That's not the way logical and coherent debate works, I'm sorry to inform you.

You are right, my bad.

My bard needs to be epic.

Besides that, I stll can't see how that could change the fact that, with enough feats and levels, my bard will always be able to become proficient in all martial weapons.

It's not meaningless, it's the difference.

???

Let's suppose that we are using 3 sourcebooks and the core books.

Let's suppose that there are 50 martial weapons in these books.

The fighter is procificent with all of them, and can use the bastard sword two handed without penalties.

My bard is procificent with all of them, but (by your reasoning) can't use the bastard sword two handed without penalties.

Maybe I'm retarded, but I can't see why.

What's the reason behind your statement?

Where's this "ghostly" proficiency that makes the fighter able to do what my bard can't?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Besides that, I stll can't see how that could change the fact that, with enough feats and levels, my bard will always be able to become proficient in all martial weapons.

Your bard is not proficient in all martial weapons. He's proficient in 50 martial weapons. One of those 50 martial weapons cannot be the b. sword because that is not a martial weapon, it's an exotic weapon.

The 'ghostly' proficiency is this line: "A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons...." It does not say something like "A fighter is proficient with 50 martial weapons."

I hope we're done with this. You can disagree or not, but note what many of us have said before. It's fine to allow MWP (b.sword).

 

[Animal]

My bard is procificent with all of them, but (by your reasoning) can't use the bastard sword two handed without penalties.

he is not proficient with ALL MW. he is proficient only with those MWs he has a MWP feat for. there's a linguistic trick here.

Maybe I'm retarded, but I can't see why.

because your bard doesn't have proficiency with bastard sword. duh.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Why is this still being discussed? The Horned Devil doesn't have EWP Spiken Chain, and yet uses one with no penalty.

QED.

 

[Goldmoon]

Perhaps Im missing something but it seems that if using a bastard sword two handed makes it a martial weapon while using it one handed makes it an exotic weapon, should'nt it be considered both? Should'nt taking it as an exotic weapon let you use it either way? Why would you need two feats to use 1 weapon?

 

[Egres]

Your bard is not proficient in all martial weapons. He's proficient in 50 martial weapons. One of those 50 martial weapons cannot be the b. sword because that is not a martial weapon, it's an exotic weapon.

If those 50 martial weapons are all the martial weapons in the game, isn't he proficient in all the martial weapons?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If those 50 martial weapons are all the martial weapons in the game, isn't he proficient in all the martial weapons?

Can you cast Magic Fang on a lion's Rake attack?

The lion has three natural weapons; two claws and a bite. When he is pouncing or grappling, he gains two extra claw attacks that can be used to Rake. When he is not pouncing or grappling, he doesn't have those two extra claw attacks.

So when he's not pouncing or grappling, the two extra claw attacks do not exist to target with Magic Fang.

Let's assume for a moment that one can cast Magic Fang multiple times on a single creature. I can cast it on every single natural weapon the lion possesses - three. And yet when he pounces, he makes five attacks, two of which are non-magical.

Now let's cast Greater Magic Fang on the lion instead, which makes all of his natural weapons magical. When he pounces, he makes five attacks... and all of them are magical.

See how casting Magic Fang on every natural weapon the lion possesses, and casting Greater Magic Fang to affect 'all natural weapons', results in a different number of weapons being magical?

I can take Martial Weapon Proficiency in every martial weapon that exists, and yet when someone picks up a bastard sword with both hands, there's one I missed...

-Hyp.