Monster Manual IV needs errata before its publishing?

[saucercrab]

I doubt it, but whether one exists or not is irrelevant. Consider it a hypothetical case.

Yeah, it doesn't matter in any case, since the War domain won't grant an exotic weapon proficiency.

It does not indicate that it is a martial weapon. It indicates how it can be used as a martial weapon. There's a difference.

That quote indicates how it functions as both types.

Completely irrelevant. Neither source is an official rules document for D&D outside their scope. Iow, if we're playing FR, you can't use LG material. If we're playing LG, you can't use FR material. If we're playing a homebrew (which I do), then neither source is useful. Nonspecific sourcebooks are valid, however, so if you see other examples let us know.

LMAO! Nice one!

FR & LG no have special rules concerning bastard swords. The two sources are merely evidence that there is a Martial Weapon: bastard sword feat. Since you can offer no proof in the core rules that this isn't allowed (again, please point out where it says that it isn't allowed), then it is legal.

The fact that some deity in FR or LG is wrongly implemented means nothing to me.

Right, 'cause the RPGA would do this... :\

Hypersmurf, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Since you can offer no proof in the core rules that this isn't allowed (again, please point out where it says that it isn't allowed), then it is legal.

I suppose we just differ on our interpretation of "is" versus "used as." From the famous words of Bill Clinton, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Obviously, you define "is" as either "is" or "used as", take your pick. I (and Hyp and others) define it as "is".

In this case, I don't have a problem with it, however. Allowing MWP (bsword) will not hurt anything especially since it is a real suck of an option. If I ever allowed a deity with an exotic favored weapon, I would consider houseruling it from MWP to EWP. There probably needs to be something to balance that out, perhaps no WF or perhaps inferior domain choices or some RP restrictions or whatever.

As a side note, if you choose War with a deity with an inferior weapon, what do you do? Now, the cleric gets something like MWP (dagger), which is just as useless (in my interpretation) as MWP (bsword).

 

[calypso15]

And, this is all a tangent. The original issue was an assertion that Monstrous Humanoids got the lesser of the two hypothetical weapon proficiencies. Which wouldn't give them full proficiency, and wouldn't jive with the monster entry.

Calypso

 

[saucercrab]

I suppose we just differ on our interpretation of "is" versus "used as." From the famous words of Bill Clinton, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Obviously, you define "is" as either "is" or "used as", take your pick. I (and Hyp and others) define it as "is".

In light of the context, & other supporting material, it's how I read it in this particular situation.

In this case, I don't have a problem with it, however. Allowing MWP (bsword) will not hurt anything especially since it is a real suck of an option. If I ever allowed a deity with an exotic favored weapon, I would consider houseruling it from MWP to EWP. There probably needs to be something to balance that out, perhaps no WF or perhaps inferior domain choices or some RP restrictions or whatever.

Yes it is an inferior, but still legal, choice.

As for possible exotic favored weapons with the War domain, I'd say no free WF with it.

As a side note, if you choose War with a deity with an inferior weapon, what do you do? Now, the cleric gets something like MWP (dagger), which is just as useless (in my interpretation) as MWP (bsword).

Actually, the cleric only gets the MWP, if necessary. Since clerics are already proficient in simple weapons, only the WF feat would be gained.

So as it stands, Gruumsh is sad. His chosen weapon is a lame simple one, while Corellon has a cool martial one.

 

[saucercrab]

And, this is all a tangent.

Yeah, it is. My apologies to Egres if he did mind it.

 

[Egres]

Because there is a difference. The fact that you need to assume you have another feat available to acquire proficiency in all the new weapons is a SIGNIFICANT difference.

1) Your reply is based on the assumption that you are using sourcebooks.

If you use them, the same can I with my bard.

2) You didn't reply to my question about the core system.

Hyp illustrated a fundamental difference between your assumptions and the rules and it is this difference that makes your assumption invalid. In trying to toss aside the difference, you're attempting to negate the very reason your interpretation on the bastard sword rules is wrong.

I think you should make something better than stating that I'm wrong without supporting your staement.

Tell me where's the difference between having all the MPWs and being proficient in all martial weapons.

Please.

 

[calypso15]

Tell me where's the difference between having all the MPWs and being proficient in all martial weapons.

Please.

And please tell me how, even if there exists a MWP(Bastard Sword), that implies that the monster entry you listed is erroneous?

Calypso

 

[Egres]

And please tell me how, even if there exists a MWP(Bastard Sword), that implies that the monster entry you listed is erroneous?

Calypso

We should before determine if the "default" proficiency is the martial or the exotic one.

Besides that, I could be wrong about the Godslayer (I'm not the one that never admits he/she is wrong around here), but that issue is tangential now.

Now, can you answer to my questions?

 

[Land Outcast]

Tell me where's the difference between having all the MPWs and being proficient in all martial weapons.

Ok, lets try:

If you have all MWPs, all MW can be used as MW at no penalty.
If you are proficient with all MW, any weapon (usable as a MW) can be used as a MW at no penalty.

The difference:

In the first situation you can't use a EW as a MW at no penalty.
In the second situation you can use an EW (usable as a MW) as a MW at no penalty.


In the first situation you can't use a Bastard Sword as a Martial Weapon at no penalty.
In the second situation you can use a Bastard Sword (usable as a Martial Weapon) as a Martial Weapon at no penalty.

 

[Egres]

Ok, lets try:

If you have all MWPs, all MW can be used as MW at no penalty.
If you are proficient with all MW, any weapon (usable as a MW) can be used as a MW at no penalty.

The difference:

In the first situation you can't use a EW as a MW at no penalty.
In the second situation you can use an EW (usable as a MW) as a MW at no penalty.


In the first situation you can't use a Bastard Sword as a Martial Weapon at no penalty.
In the second situation you can use a Bastard Sword (usable as a Martial Weapon) as a Martial Weapon at no penalty.

I see the difference.(that was implied in Hyp's answers).

Unfortunately, you didn't provide any reason to state this difference.

Once again, I'm not challenging you.

I'm just trying to get a reasonable answer, not a dogma.