Monster Types
- Thread starter Szatany
- Start date
my point is that the types system is restrictive and a bit silly. Inevitables are built in factories, for Primus' sake.
You're right that earth elementals are intelligent and self aware. So we come to the Warforged, who is *also* intelligent and self aware, but uses different rules to be so.
I would be happier if:
Inevitables were constructs, lawful, extraplanar, and sentient (but immune to sneak attack; no discernable anatomy) -- but this is a change; to be true to 3.X, they'd be "living" instead of sentient, with whatever that entailed.
Warforged were constructs, sentient, and "living" (with whatever that means for a living construct now)
Earth Elementals were constructs, earthiful, extraplanar, and sentient
and
Stone Golems were constructs, stone (I like material descriptors, what can I say?
), and golems (for the shared traits, dontcha know).
You're right that earth elementals are intelligent and self aware. So we come to the Warforged, who is *also* intelligent and self aware, but uses different rules to be so.
I would be happier if:
Inevitables were constructs, lawful, extraplanar, and sentient (but immune to sneak attack; no discernable anatomy) -- but this is a change; to be true to 3.X, they'd be "living" instead of sentient, with whatever that entailed.
Warforged were constructs, sentient, and "living" (with whatever that means for a living construct now)
Earth Elementals were constructs, earthiful, extraplanar, and sentient
and
Stone Golems were constructs, stone (I like material descriptors, what can I say?
), and golems (for the shared traits, dontcha know).
Szatany
First Post
But the type won't imply ability scores, so this difference will not be thanks to it in 4e.Zurai said:
How about this:
Types (and common subtypes):
Beast (dragon, insect, outsider)
Humanoid (centauroid, avian, giant, fey, outsider)
Undead (ghost)
Elemental (golem, ooze, plant, construct)
Actual game mechanics that make the type matter:
Beast - must sleep, breathe, and eat to survive, can't use mounts, its reach is humanoid one size category smaller, its carrying capacity is as humanoid one size category bigger
+ aquatic - doesn't breathe air, can live underwater, swim speed, no land speed
+ dragon - can speak
+ insect - immune to mind effects
+ outsider - can be summoned and banished, can't be resurrected
Humanoid - must sleep, breather, and eat to survive, ...
+ aquatic
+ centauroid - can't use mounts, can take standing high jump
+ avian - has fly speed, can't wear armor
+ fey - some rule related to feywild
+ giant - no idea, but likely to stay anyway
+ outsider
Undead - doesn't sleep, breathe, eat, immune to negative energy, immune to cold damage, immune to disease and poison, no Con score, and so on, different senses
+ ghost - incorporeal, respawn
+ outsider
Elemental - doesn't breathe, sleep, or eat, can't be critted, can't be flanked, different senses, immune to poison and disease
+ aquatic
+ construct - mechanical structure
+ golem - magic immunity
+ ooze - engulf
+ outsider
+ plant - fire vulnerability
Aboleth - beast
Beholder - beast
Mind Flayer - humanoid
Iron Golem - elemental (golem)
Silver Dragon - beast (dragon)
Kraken - beast (aquatic)
Inevitable - elemental (construct, outsider)
Couatl - beast (elemental)
Raptoran - humanoid (avian)
Phasm - elemental (ooze)
Vampire - humanoid
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I had a big long passionate tract, but this isn't really the place for it, and I'm too loopy to make it come out in acceptable english 
I guess my question is "why do types matter"?
I think they're useful for targeting: knowing whether a ranger's favored foe comes into play, making targets for bane weapons, deciding whether Charm Serpents applies on a dragon, deciding whether the Serpent Cultist can summon monster X, or boost the morale of same.
I think they're useful for lumping groups of abilities together: Does it breathe? Can it breathe underwater? Does it have darkvision? Is it harmed by a cure-light-wounds spell? Does it glow in the dark? Is it, in its natural state, invisible, on fire, or otherwise bizarre?
I think they're useful for determining cultures: what languages should this speak, by default? Which weapons? Which animals does it tend to be encountered with? Which spells does it cast?
I think they're useful for body type questions -- stability bonuses, for instance, are inherited from "type", of a sort.
I posit that you can mix and match your answers to these questions, such that a monster can be defined by taking a grab bag of types. Undead-goblin-serpent-fire is silly -- any lengthy random list is -- but it's kind of cool, conjuring up the image of a hunched over scaled goblin with a venomous bite whose shriveled flesh burns with spectral flame.
It takes some sort of effect from cold, a side effect of the fire descriptor, and is harmed by curing; it speaks Goblin, wields goblinoid weapons, and is counted in any effects that affect Goblins, though it has a ton of resistances/immunities from being undead.
If I decide that this week, I want it to be warlike, I swap Fire for War, and change only a few abilities. Same with changing Undead for Draconic, or Elemental, or Construct. And when I decide that these are the undead "heroes" of the Naga people, I remove the goblin descriptor, and keep using the same stats.
Looks like I still had a tract. Sorry. Darn.
I guess my question is "why do types matter"?
I think they're useful for targeting: knowing whether a ranger's favored foe comes into play, making targets for bane weapons, deciding whether Charm Serpents applies on a dragon, deciding whether the Serpent Cultist can summon monster X, or boost the morale of same.
I think they're useful for lumping groups of abilities together: Does it breathe? Can it breathe underwater? Does it have darkvision? Is it harmed by a cure-light-wounds spell? Does it glow in the dark? Is it, in its natural state, invisible, on fire, or otherwise bizarre?
I think they're useful for determining cultures: what languages should this speak, by default? Which weapons? Which animals does it tend to be encountered with? Which spells does it cast?
I think they're useful for body type questions -- stability bonuses, for instance, are inherited from "type", of a sort.
I posit that you can mix and match your answers to these questions, such that a monster can be defined by taking a grab bag of types. Undead-goblin-serpent-fire is silly -- any lengthy random list is -- but it's kind of cool, conjuring up the image of a hunched over scaled goblin with a venomous bite whose shriveled flesh burns with spectral flame.
It takes some sort of effect from cold, a side effect of the fire descriptor, and is harmed by curing; it speaks Goblin, wields goblinoid weapons, and is counted in any effects that affect Goblins, though it has a ton of resistances/immunities from being undead.
If I decide that this week, I want it to be warlike, I swap Fire for War, and change only a few abilities. Same with changing Undead for Draconic, or Elemental, or Construct. And when I decide that these are the undead "heroes" of the Naga people, I remove the goblin descriptor, and keep using the same stats.
Looks like I still had a tract. Sorry. Darn.
Varianor Abroad
Explorer
If I had my druthers, I would like to see types lose certain special abilities and make them into Special Abilities. Creatures that are immune to criticals would have a line stating that, which would have the side benefit of eliminating certainty (it's an undead - you can't crit it!) and introducing variety.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Here's my thinking:
- Humanoids (includes Giants)
- Beasts (includes Animals, Dire Animals, Magical Beasts & Vermin)
- Aberrations (includes Oozes, which have the [Amorphous] subtype)
- Constructs (includes [Living] constructs)
- Fey (includes Elves)
- Elementals
- Outsiders
- Undead
They'd be grouped into five broad categories:
Mortals: Aberrations, Beasts, Humanoids
Constructs: Duh.
Green Spirits: Fey, Elementals
Bright Spirits: Outsiders (all of them)
Dark Spirits: Undead (all of them)
... and spells would be able to affect or hedge out critters based on descriptor or broad category.
So, [arachnid] would be a subtype shared by phase spiders, huge monstrous spiders, aranea and retrievers. You could have a single anti-spider ward hedge out all four, even though they are all of very different types.
Cheers, -- N
- Humanoids (includes Giants)
- Beasts (includes Animals, Dire Animals, Magical Beasts & Vermin)
- Aberrations (includes Oozes, which have the [Amorphous] subtype)
- Constructs (includes [Living] constructs)
- Fey (includes Elves)
- Elementals
- Outsiders
- Undead
They'd be grouped into five broad categories:
Mortals: Aberrations, Beasts, Humanoids
Constructs: Duh.
Green Spirits: Fey, Elementals
Bright Spirits: Outsiders (all of them)
Dark Spirits: Undead (all of them)
... and spells would be able to affect or hedge out critters based on descriptor or broad category.
So, [arachnid] would be a subtype shared by phase spiders, huge monstrous spiders, aranea and retrievers. You could have a single anti-spider ward hedge out all four, even though they are all of very different types.
Cheers, -- N
Nifft
Penguin Herder
I figured there would be a distinction between the corrupted and the uncorrupted... also, IMHO Djinn and their ilk are basically half-way between Fey and Elementals, so I'd like a nice unambiguous place to put them.Pale said:
I forgot Dragons. They are problematic, because I don't think of them as either mortal or unnatural. Maybe they're the kings of the incarnate Green Spirits?
Cheers, -- N
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