Monster:Tyranids Conversion

[AgelessOne]

I have always been interested in converting creatures for use in my D&D campaigns. Since 4th edition certainly makes it easier to create and represent creatures and how they actually "feel" and work in combat, I am doing some conversions.

I am tackling the Tyranids...they are great monsters in my opinion. Perhaps emerging from the Astral Sea, or part of some horrific experiment.

My first attempt was a Hormagaunt- Think Alien if you don't play 40K. Teeth, Claws fast movement..Skirmisher

I used the minion because these creatures are should be cut down or blown up in large numbers.

Several questions came up as I started to build them and I need input

Question one: Tyranids can evolve and therefore can have wings, strong legs for leaping and other variations that would make them faster, have envenomed attacks, stronger etc Should I create a different creature for each variant or is there some way to represent slight variations of the same species.

Question 2: Some creatures - particularly the more advanced ones in a Tyranid army can fight both in melee and shoot effectively. They essentially can fulfill multiple roles. Should these be soldiers with a melee and ranged attacks, or once again do I create variants for each genus of creature

Question 3: When assigning stats do you just pick the stats? I am using the Hormagaunts as a base creature and building stats for the larger ones from there. Does that make sense?

Question 4: The "Hive Mind" and proximity of makes the lesser Tyranids like the Hormagaunt immune to fear, morale, mind affecting spells. What are some ideas for a mechanic around this?

Question 5: The Hive Mind drives the entire brood and the "tactical" leaders are called "Synapse Creatures" who guide and direct the movements and actions of the lesser creatures. This is an aura like effect related to question 4. Any ideas on a mechanic for these two related components?


Finally how is XP assigned? Is it purely by role and HD?

 

[Szatany]

I think tyranids are more appropriate for paragon tier. I'd make Termagant a level 11 minion and hormagaunt a level 14 minion.

termagant

hormagaunt

 

[runnerXL]

Minion - Yes
Level 1 - No

Compare the damage and abilities you have given to other lvl 1 minions. Minions should be doing fixed amounts of damage, at lvl 1 a minion does 4 damage, your termagants do a minimum of 4...

Sything talons is equivalent to an elite monsters ability to attack twice in a round. Combined with Sything Leap and Mob Attack it is crazy. Imagine a first level party gets into a fight which includes 4 of these guys:

First round: all four minions charge making 2 attacks each, and each one getting progressivly better at hitting the target (I would assume most DMs would have them swarm over 1 target). Then the other monsters attack.

Too powerful. Compare them to monsters of the same lvl and role.

 

[AgelessOne]

Wow..paragon level. Really! I have trouble seeing that myself but whats your reasoning? I was thinking level 3-5 max!

Given the tiers of creatures in a Tyranid force the Hormagaunts and Termagaunts are bottom of the barrel. Once you start getting into Warriors, Ravagers and the more advanced creatures then you start seeing better armor, more resistance etc and higher levels of creatures

However I do agree if I want to keep it at first level may need to tone down the damage or adjust the level

The scything talons could be reduced to "when a Hormaguant doesn't move" he may make 2 claw attacks. So they can charge and make one attack and the next round they have two attacks and a shift movement. That should make them scary enough but it goes against the way they fight...

As far as one PC getting charged by four gaunts that would be their problem, but a warrior could cleave 2 down in with a cleave and close blasts and such would be very effective. The point is not to get charged by 4 creatures of any kind at once


Any thoughts on my other questions?

 

[Olfactatron]

I like your idea. The 40k universe is one of the coolest fictional worlds I can thing of. Some constructive crit...
Mob attack should be "each tyranid" not each ally.
Hive mind doesn't do anything as written, there are no "mind affecting" effects anymore. And minions probably shouldn't be immune to things like that anyway.
The bonus on will defense is probably too high, I would recommend dropping it to +2 or +3 at the most.
Minions generally shouldn't have three attack options. The first two are fine except for the damage should be a static number, not a die roll. Bounding leap is way too strong for a minion ability. As written it gives a move of 24 in the first round of combat with two attacks at the end.
A "balanced encounter" of these guys is 20 for a first level party of five. As written, these guys are a TPK waiting to happen.

 

[AgelessOne]

Thanks for the Feedback, I am working on a new version that tones it back. The feedback has been very helpful
I will post the stats again as soon as I test it out against some players

 

[Szatany]

Wow..paragon level. Really! I have trouble seeing that myself but whats your reasoning? I was thinking level 3-5 max!

First of all, you don't need a reason that is logical in the game world, only one that makes sense from the game's perspective.
Having said that, drow are a paragon threat, and realistically they are no better than eladrin. So why the chasm? It all boils down to when the players are supposed to face their enemies. Tyranids are an otherworldly force that threatens all life around them. Now please read descriptions of what adventures should heroic, paragon, and epic tiers represent. If anything, tyranids should be epic, but I'd go for paragon to give them more spread. Carniflex can still be level 23 elite brute but no, 1st level tyranids do not fit at all.

 

[AgelessOne]

First of all, you don't need a reason that is logical in the game world, only one that makes sense from the game's perspective.
Having said that, drow are a paragon threat, and realistically they are no better than eladrin. So why the chasm? It all boils down to when the players are supposed to face their enemies. Tyranids are an otherworldly force that threatens all life around them. Now please read descriptions of what adventures should heroic, paragon, and epic tiers represent. If anything, tyranids should be epic, but I'd go for paragon to give them more spread. Carniflex can still be level 23 elite brute but no, 1st level tyranids do not fit at all.

Correct, I wasn't looking for justification on where they fit within my game(thats what I am trying to figure out) I am trying to determine why you were thinking such a simple creature in relative terms would be paragon level. I have read all the descriptions of what type of creatures or challenges PCs should face fairly closely.

Additionally I appreciate any discussion on this so don't take my questions or positioning in the wrong way


My perspective was more from a long term campaign - I agree a full blown Tyranid invasion is an epic event. However they only happen after long, long periods of infiltration, cult activity, small skirmishes etc which slowly builds to an epic planet ending or system ending event.
I can see your reasoning, I just disagree with the placement thats all.

I cant see making a creature who is essentially cannon fodder more powerful from a stats, bonus AC and everything point of view just because the PCs have reached some tier. For comparative purposes, if a single imperial guardsman or two (in 40k) is an even match for a Hormaguant, are we saying that we need to make all guardsmen or their D&D equivalent "Town Militia" level 10 minions as well? I am not even saying the PCs would SEE an actual Hormagaunt until 10th level but when they do the creatures role and place on food chain do not warrant a 10th level profile. PCs may fight some Hormagaunts at 10th level but that is just to GET TO the more advanced and critical enemies in the form of Warriors, Ravagers, Genestealers etc.


If I encounter a rabid dog...does it have to be stated out as a 10th level dog because I am 10th level? Or is it still just a rabid dog? I don't want to the dog to represent any REAL threat to the PCs so hes a 1st level mutt. He still poses a threat to someone normal and a pack of them may put some hurt on a PC if properly motivated. No...a swift kick and the mutt is no longer a threat.


Stay with me here, you told me to read the descriptions...


Heroic Level
The party, newbs to the world discover weird events in their area...a Cult pops up. Maybe they learn about Hybrids..a small village in an old mining community disappears, more importantly people are acting differently..The PCs investigate and save the day perhaps killing a Patriarch or a Magus in the process and fighting a horrific genestealer brood. They save the day in small but important ways learning more about the threat these creatures represent to the world.

Paragon Level
The party begins to realize its more than just outside the neighborhood..the entire kingdom, perhaps even other neighboring countries or city states are affected. Perhaps the King is under the sway of these" Stealers of Genes" The PCs have now fought the infiltrators, the collaborators and have thwarted the threat through battle and wit again and again. Some players realizing that the level of infiltration necessitates engagement in the political arena. In jump the role players and the ladder climbers.


I think at this point you are saying if I introduce something like a Hormagaunt or Termagaunt it should be as a level 10+ creature. Still a minion but level 10 at least. What I am saying is why make it 10th level at all? A 10 level warrior or warlock should gut stomp a single Hormagaunt or 10. A 1st level warrior is in a fight for his life.


If there was such a big battle for our Paragons of Virtue to fight, the typical Tyranid tactic would be to overrun the village/city..swarms without number appear on the horizon. The town militia and Kings men have lined up to meet them with the PCs bolstering the line. The swarm comes...and 1000 10th level minions? Well thats the end of that. PCs cant be everywhere at once, No one can shoot or survive melee because 10th level minions are AC 24+ and have +15 or greater to attack.


Or


If there was a big battle for our Paragons of Virtue to fight, the typical Tyranid tactic would be to overrun the village/city..swarms without number appear on the horizon. The town militia and Kings men have lined up to meet them with the PCs bolstering the line. The swarm comes...1000 1st level minions. The defenders line erupts with ranged weapons, blasts and bursts from spellcasters. Huge holes are blasted in the line of teeth and claws. A second volley erupts just before the line of Hormagaunts hit the defenders..Blood sprays, limbs go flying, good men go down and the line begins to break. THEN the paragon warrior wades in....smashing the enemies aside, wreaking havoc and piling up the dead Tyranids around him. A wave of healing hits the ranks from the Cleric increasing the militias ability to fight. The Warlock burns and shifts and summons. The Wizard blasts away. The line is held.

A cheer goes up-- the day is saved!

But wait - Another wave appears on the Horizon, smaller than the first but littered with BIGGER creatures..the men brace for the attack. They know whats coming. The PCs ready their weapons and spells. The ranger whispers to the catapult the exact location he measured the night before. Men grit there teeth.

Then the Lictor jumps on the Warlock....... and the Genestealers erupt from the sewers.

Its ON


Epic Level
The world ends because the planet is devoured by a Hive Fleet or the uber Epic PCs stop it. Hopefully it doesn't ever get to level 23 elite brutes named "old one eye" walking through the town.


1st Level Tyranids fit quite nicely....