Monsters that mark: A pain for DMs

[tomBitonti]

So ...

You make your way across a battlefield. A dozen ragged soldiers, leaderless, have survived and are making their way slowly through the many bodies. They see you, and begin running in your direction.

(A dozen soldiers; no controller, but mixed roles.)

While fighting the soldiers ...

A charnal miasma wafts across the battlefield; slowly, first one or two, but soon dozens of zombies rise from the newly fallen. Together with the soldiers whom you were fighting just moments before, you form up to face the newly risen horrors.

(Groups of 1 to 20 zombies; still no controllers.)

Later ...

You make your way across the battlefield with the few soldiers who survived the battle and the endless undead. To your horror, the miasma thickens and eats away at the flesh of the fallen. Those which did not rise before arise now as skeletons; faster, and with a feral hostility. You gird yourself for yet another battle.

(Groups of 1 to 10 skeletons. Maybe a controller in the mix.)

Later ...

At the far end of the battlefield sits a lonely pavilion; the foul miasma is thickest there. A cluster of undead, zombies, skeletons, and other creatures are gathered near the pavilion, and you hear a low droning from the tent.

(A dozen zombies, a dozen skeletons, a pair of ghouls, a high level skeleton lord, and a necromancer. The ghouls are controllers. The skeleton lord and necromancer are the elites/solos.)

....

Do marks cause a problem for any of these enounters?

 

[Pbartender]

Do marks cause a problem for any of these enounters?

As I see it, not especially. Each character can never be marked by more than one enemy at a time. In each of those situations, the DM will never have to keep track of more than one mark for each character -- typically four to six. For that matter, each round, he tells each player which enemy is currently marking him, so that the players can keep track themselves.

In all likelyhood, on the player's turn you'll hear either, "I attack the skeleton who's marking me," or "I shift away from the skeletons, and attack the necromancer (who obviously isn't marking me)."

Simpler yet, the other option is to not worry about it so much... If a PC is threatened by three skeletons, who all attacked him last round, does it really matter which one marked him? Only one of them can at a time. When the players asks, "which one is marking me?" just choose one and get on with it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

just describe marking as:
one of them concentrates on you while the others look around for other danger...

if a player marks a monster with an ability to mark, also use its mark on the player... (if triggered by an attack, thats the most common situation anyway)


I really could imagine marks working both ways in some situations

 

[Kishin]

Can't you just keep scrap paper handy and write Skel 1 - Throg, Skel 2 - Rufus, erase (or don't, if you use pen) and that'd be fine? I don't see the problem in notating it. Or, if you DM with a laptop, just toss it on in there if you're already using some sheet to track HP/Init/etc.

 

[AZRogue]

I think that Monsters Marking PCs is my least favorite thing about combat so far, as a DM.

I plan on limiting the monsters capable of Marking per encounter UNTIL I get used to the rules enough to start using more. I'm HOPING that practice will make it easier. I don't imagine why it wouldn't. Still, I can sympathize with the OP on this subject.

 

[Falling Icicle]

It seems to me that for everything they simplified in 4th edition, they added 2 more things to keep track of in combat. Marking is one thing in particular I wish had never been introduced into the system.

 

[KarinsDad]

Can't you just keep scrap paper handy and write Skel 1 - Throg, Skel 2 - Rufus, erase (or don't, if you use pen) and that'd be fine? I don't see the problem in notating it. Or, if you DM with a laptop, just toss it on in there if you're already using some sheet to track HP/Init/etc.

I think a table could be created with monsters on the rows, effects and PC names for the marks on the columns:

Monster        Hits    Effects   PC1     PC2      PC3
Ghoul       |35      |        |       |  M    |        |

To see who is marked and by whom, the DM just need to look down the columns. I do something like this already, I just do not have a formal table. I just use a scrap of paper.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems to me that for everything they simplified in 4th edition, they added 2 more things to keep track of in combat. Marking is one thing in particular I wish had never been introduced into the system.

I'm afraid I find myself in agreement with you here.

It is a major additional complication (much more complicated than simple status effects since you've got to remember who caused the mark). I'm not yet convinced that it offers anything really worthwhile to the game.

As ainatan asked up near the top of the thread "what is the ultimate purpose of marks?"

It is an important question for those of us who may end up thinking about alternative mechanics to replace it with (I'm sure there will be several house rules discussed in this arena once the rules are available, and I don't anticipate it being the 4e version of 3e initiative - everyone hates it in principle, everyone loves it in practice. That was a big simplification. This introduces mental and physical clutter to a combat).

I might try running an adventure where I just ditch marks entirely, or where I replace monster marking with a different Fighter power (such as AoO which stop movement dead) to see how it works.

Cheers

 

[vagabundo]

I'm not mad about them, yet.

I'm having difficulty re-wiring my 3e brain to DM 4e, so I've not been paying much attention to marks.

My gut tells me that it wont be a big problem, the efficiency savings in other areas and the general intuitiveness of 4e will not be spent on marks or the other the other 4e additions to combat.

 

[essenbee]

I will say this was my least favorite part of 4e monsters in the playtest I ran. The monsters that did marks was annoying in many cases.

Further, we used poker chips to note status conditions. So if the paladin marked a monster it got a blue chip. If the fighter, it got a green. But when my hobgoblin solider marked someone, I used a white chip. Next round, which hobgoblin was dong the marking, hobgoblin A, B, or C?

I just keep a note of which monster marked who, on the piece of paper on which I keep the monsters' hit points tallied up. No sweat really.