D&D 5E Monstrous Disappointments.

[Bitbrain]

The Minotaur, specifically as detailed in the 5e monster manual.

Not a single minotaur that I throw at any group of PCs has ever managed to hit a Player Character, EVER.

Give me literally any other monster or NPC stat block, and I can create a combat encounter that challenges the players. But apparently not the MM Minotaur.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I've determined the monsters in the MM are designed to face off against four PCs created with the Basic Rules, one class of each type, and 27 point buy at best (I think 24 or 21 point buy would be better.)

If you use any other classes (which can result in better group synergy), or any additional build options like feats, or any additional PCs in the group... the monsters HAVE to be buffed to compensate. Even just a 2nd character with healing capability in the group will throw things off.

 

[Undrave]

What monsters have you tried to use that didn’t or can’t give you what you want as they are written?

For me the first one that springs to mind is werewolf. They just don’t instill he kind of fear or revulsion I would like.

Try being in a three players party in AL composed of a Rogue, a Fighter and Ranger (all at Lv 3 or so) with only a silver dagger between them having to face a Werewolf.

Once the Rogue went down, the Ranger and I (the Fighter) would literally pass the dagger to one another each round to attack.

It was brutal.

 

[Celebrim]

But out of curiosity, what would it take to make a monster terrifying to you? Save-or-die?

You have to admit that older monsters had a lot more different ways to mess with you.

For example, based on experience, the most terrifying monster in 1e AD&D was the 1-1 HD vargouille. When my players identified it, the look of horror and terror on their faces was like nothing I'd ever seen. I think it's about the only time I've faced an actual player revolt. Why? Because if you recall, in 1e AD&D the bite of the vargouille didn't do damage - it permanently drained hit points. Death was something you could come back from, but being permanently maimed wasn't.

Compare the sheer terror of the Spectre in every prior edition of the game to what it is in 5e. The Spectre was a monster so terrible that I - a guy that put vargouille's in encounters - hesitated to throw one at the players. Heck, vampires were so terrible that I rewrote them not to do level drain and to do blood drain instead simply because I wanted to use them regularly but double level drain was too terrible of a horror to use as a routine encounter. If they were going to show up a lot, I had to make them less terrifying.

There is this tension here between removing the 'suck' from a monster like a vampire and yet also at the same time giving them some flavor that makes them other than a bag of hit points that is trying to win a battle of attrition with you in the exact same way that say an orc is, just with bigger numbers. This has been a discussion in D&D for a while now, where for example paralyzation had to go because it wasn't fun to lose your turn. But if something couldn't paralyze you, then it would inherently be a less fearsome opponent and things would be all about the damage race.

5e doesn't provide a lot of tools or templates for that. It's busy trying to (for example) make sure that casters don't dominate the action economy with battle field control and save or suck, so even giving monsters spell abilities doesn't provide a real template for making things scary.

 

[Mort]

The Minotaur, specifically as detailed in the 5e monster manual.

Not a single minotaur that I throw at any group of PCs has ever managed to hit a Player Character, EVER.

Give me literally any other monster or NPC stat block, and I can create a combat encounter that challenges the players. But apparently not the MM Minotaur.

With +6 to hit and reckless (advantage on attacks)? Those are some unlucky minotaurs!

I threw a minotaur at my party at level 2 - and it wasn't a difficult encounter but there were some tense moments.

 

[jayoungr]

You have to admit that older monsters had a lot more different ways to mess with you.

Yeah, but IME that doesn't routinely produce terror in the players. Sometimes it just produces annoyance. So one thing I'm getting at with my question is, "Do you mean you want your players to feel fear, specifically, or do you just mean you want them to respect the monsters and worry about their PCs dying?" Because the solutions to those two situations are not the same.

Also, I think everyone agrees that the Monster Manual monsters err on the side of being kind of easy. That's one reason I've been collecting third-party bestiaries since 5E started. My players would probably curse and swear if they saw another wind dragon from the Tome of Beasts, but I don't think they'd be terrified. Also, now that they've faced it once, they'd likely have some strategies in place to deal with it this time.

This has been a discussion in D&D for a while now, where for example paralyzation had to go because it wasn't fun to lose your turn. But if something couldn't paralyze you, then it would inherently be a less fearsome opponent and things would be all about the damage race.

I can think of plenty of monsters that have abilities that make PCs lose their turn, so it's still in the game. Just (1) maybe not as much at low levels, and (2) typically, the player can at least still make a saving throw, so the turn isn't completely lost.

 

[Mort]

Trust me--I've been running for a lot of new players lately. People who haven't memorized the MM and/or learned all the tropes and/or developed all the tricks of their characters have a healthy respect for even basic monsters. We on the board here have to remember that we're a jaded subset of the whole group of D&D players.

But out of curiosity, what would it take to make a monster terrifying to you? Save-or-die?

TO "jaded" players fear of character death isn't always the most terrifying thing.

My players got some new arms and armor (fancy metal, but not magical) - they were then pursued by some rust monsters.

The terror at the prospect of losing their stuff was by far the most scared they'd been in the campaign to date (5th level).

 

[Uller]

What about the werewolf isn't scary exactly? It's immunity to regular damage is probably the most terrifying thing a low level party could ever encounter. Sure, it's CR 3 isn't a big deal to hardly any other D&D character, but in the right circumstances I think you can eke a great encounter out of it. I had the PCs trapped in a jail cell once with moonlight through the bars and a wererat changing form. That was going to be a TPK unless they found a way to escape.

Cantrips. Almost every full caster has some damage dealing cantrip. This makes these immunities not nearly as useful as they could be. So I change it to be resistance to all damage except silver (so fire, magic, etc) and add regen 10 that is shutdown for a round by silver. If they reduce the lycanthrope to 0 without shutting down its regen it will flee when it gets back up if it can...but to kill it you must have silver weapons.

I had the same disappointment with the vampire spawn with a low level party. Sacred Flame shut down its regeneration so it was not nearly as daunting as it should have been. Haven't come up with a good solution to this one yet.

 

[jayoungr]

BTW--for anyone who wants to know how to use "disappointing" monsters to their full potential, I highly recommend this blog:

The Monsters Know What They're Doing

For example, here's the section on lycanthropes:

Lycanthrope Tactics - The Monsters Know What They’re Doing

Werebeasts, a.k.a. lycanthropes, are wonderful enemies. A werebeast encounter can be awesome action or tragic drama.

themonstersknow.com

 

[Wiseblood]

Trust me--I've been running for a lot of new players lately. People who haven't memorized the MM and/or learned all the tropes and/or developed all the tricks of their characters have a healthy respect for even basic monsters. We on the board here have to remember that we're a jaded subset of the whole group of D&D players.

But out of curiosity, what would it take to make a monster terrifying to you? Save-or-die?

I’m not sure. My players hate legendary actions. Perhaps a fear aura super low key in human form more a sense of unease. Hybrid form should be formidable but player characters aren't sheep they’re lions.