Monte Cook Games Announced Numenera 2: Discovery & Destiny!

Dahak · Aug 17, 2017

In the spirit of Cypher, I feel like I should have used the character sentences "Publishing Monte Who is the Envy of Millions" in place of "Monte the publisher" and "Creative Monte Who Rages Against the Machine" in place of "Monte the creative" in my last post.

Aldarc · Aug 17, 2017

I'll reserve my judgment until we get a bit more information about the updates and what spurred them.

Desh-Rae-Halra · Aug 17, 2017

I am worried about the amount of re-hash. I have Numenera, The Strange, and Cypher System as well as the Character Options for each....this was an element I was disappointed with in the Cypher System in that a LOT was rehashed.
I don't know if Base Building sounds like a lot of fun in an RPG...

ArchfiendBobbie · Aug 17, 2017

Mistwell said:
Anyone have a link to the article where Monte Cook said 3.5 D&D was unnecessary because, while technically supposed to be backwards compatible with 3e, was unnecessary because the changes made were not meaningful enough? I'd like to read that article now and compare it to this decision and see if there is consistency or inconsistency or some good reason for him to change his mind on these sorts of broader RPG design concepts.

There are a lot of things done with Numenera that Monte Cook ranted against during his 3E days.

Honestly, I blame it on the environment back then. A lot of the bad apples of that era, which included Cook (he was basically a troll king during that era), have since gone on to become well-respected and to earn good reputations. Just put them all together in the same team, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Really, Cook is one of the people I expected to end up effectively sidelined and eventually fading from the limelight, like Skip Williams has. Like Williams, Cook kinda earned such a fate. I'm honestly impressed with how far he has come since then, and I suspect he would cringe if he had to go back and face his own past.

But, hey, we all make mistakes in our past. I'm seeing he's learning from his, so I'm willing to overlook them.

But, yeah... If I had a choice between Hasbro burning WotC down and never publishing DnD again or bringing the 3E team back together, I'd offer to light the match for them. Those people were not good for each other. And the game suffered for it in the long run.

Mistwell · Aug 18, 2017

ArchfiendBobbie said:
There are a lot of things done with Numenera that Monte Cook ranted against during his 3E days.

Honestly, I blame it on the environment back then. A lot of the bad apples of that era, which included Cook (he was basically a troll king during that era), have since gone on to become well-respected and to earn good reputations. Just put them all together in the same team, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Really, Cook is one of the people I expected to end up effectively sidelined and eventually fading from the limelight, like Skip Williams has. Like Williams, Cook kinda earned such a fate. I'm honestly impressed with how far he has come since then, and I suspect he would cringe if he had to go back and face his own past.

But, hey, we all make mistakes in our past. I'm seeing he's learning from his, so I'm willing to overlook them.

But, yeah... If I had a choice between Hasbro burning WotC down and never publishing DnD again or bringing the 3E team back together, I'd offer to light the match for them. Those people were not good for each other. And the game suffered for it in the long run.

I....don't agree at all.

Mistwell · Aug 18, 2017

Dahak said:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120430224053/http://www.montecook.com:80/arch_review26.html

https://web.archive.org/web/2004022...=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=66

These are the relevant articles.

Note that Monte the publisher has probably seen the reality of the business side in the intervening years. Monte the creative would understandably have railed against that reality when someone else was calling the shots. Human nature.

Thanks.

Hrm. That article is even harsher than I remember it being. And he makes a big point out of saying it's "too soon" when...this is the identical time frame between the Numenera 1/1.5 and 3.0/3.5! I am having a hard time reconciling what he wrote there, with this new revision of Numenera. I want to hear more before judging it though.

DaveMage · Aug 18, 2017

If I were being cynical, I would say he's having the kickstarter for (essentially) rehashed material so as to generate immediate revenue without the need to spend a lot of development time/resources. If I were being cynical.

(Monte absolutely has some very passionate fans that are likely to buy anything he produces. I am absolutely guilty of the same thing when it comes to Frog God Games.)

TheDiceMustRoll · Aug 18, 2017

Desh-Rae-Halra said:
I am worried about the amount of re-hash. I have Numenera, The Strange, and Cypher System as well as the Character Options for each....this was an element I was disappointed with in the Cypher System in that a LOT was rehashed.
I don't know if Base Building sounds like a lot of fun in an RPG...

Domain play can be fantastic if you integrate it from level 1 into the story.

Dahak · Aug 18, 2017

Mistwell said:
Thanks.

Hrm. That article is even harsher than I remember it being. And he makes a big point out of saying it's "too soon" when...this is the identical time frame between the Numenera 1/1.5 and 3.0/3.5! I am having a hard time reconciling what he wrote there, with this new revision of Numenera. I want to hear more before judging it though.

Part of me is okay with it, provided the revision is what I think it is: Discovery being essentially a hardcover players book with the two Character Options books being baked in. I never liked the slim softcovers containing the kind of stuff I think of as essential.

But, as others have noted, MCG has been cashing in on a lot of re-releasing of material with minimal new content (e.g. The Strange boxed set). I'm tolerating this for now, but I voiced my displeasure during that KS. Hopefully this KS sees a ton of fresh content added by stretch goals.

Still, this isn't much different then the way that C&C or Savage Worlds new "printings" function as new semi-editions of the game. And in terms of minimal changes, the various Cypher versions have shown no greater difference than the first six editions of Call of Cthulhu. They've emphasized it will be both forward and backwards compatibility between the two Numenera cores, and I'm inclined to believe it.

Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce Cordell is handling the revision. Monte does not seem to be involved in recent non-Invisible Sun material, except as a co-writer. I suspect the others at MCG have picked up the reigns of any Cypher System projects he ceased working on when the new game popped in his head.

ArchfiendBobbie · Aug 18, 2017

DaveMage said:
If I were being cynical, I would say he's having the kickstarter for (essentially) rehashed material so as to generate immediate revenue without the need to spend a lot of development time/resources. If I were being cynical.

(Monte absolutely has some very passionate fans that are likely to buy anything he produces. I am absolutely guilty of the same thing when it comes to Frog God Games.)

I'm guilty of buying what he publishes where it comes to Numenera. Not so much the rest of the Cypher system; I kinda hate the Strange and think the Cypher core system is kinda bad.

But Numenera? I absolutely love the setting and the amount of thought he puts into it. Playing it makes me sigh and consider converting it to 5E or Pathfinder (or maybe Starfinder now?), but the details and the art? I keep coming back.

Part of why Tides of Numenera made me facedesk. An opportunity to really go full-throttle and show off what the setting can do, wasted on a Planescape remake. I'm hoping they learn from it and get Harebrained to do the next one. If there is a next one...