D&D 5E Monte Cook Leaves WotC - No Longer working on D&D Next [updated]

[Remus Lupin]

Wizard's doesn't buy their own product. Products can fail because customers don't want to buy them. Companies can present their products only so much but the rest is up to the actual customer and if they don't like it then they don't buy it.

Some people were saying the reason for the failure was because Wizard's had their profit projections too high so it was Wizard's fault that 4th edition failed, not because the customers didn't buy it.

But I think its strange to say that if the customers don't' buy a product it's their "fault" if the product fails. People express their preferences through their purchases. The job of the manufacturer is to make a product the consumer wants to buy.

If there's a non-WotC villain, i'd be more inclined to say it's Hasbro.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

The thing about divisiveness(something I won't dispute in 4E's case) is that it's a two way street. If everybody hated it, it would be simple to deal with, but divisiveness involves both people who strongly dislike AND strongly like, in equal enough proportion that it isn't obvious which way to go.

Looking at divisiveness from only one side is a mistake, and in D&D's case if there wasn't a large group of people that liked things 4E this wouldnt be an issue.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The thing about divisiveness(something I won't dispute in 4E's case) is that it's a two way street. If everybody hated it, it would be simple to deal with, but divisiveness involves both people who strongly dislike AND strongly like, in equal enough proportion that it isn't obvious which way to go.

Looking at divisiveness from only one side is a mistake, and in D&D's case if there wasn't a large group of people that liked things 4E this wouldnt be an issue.

This is sort of what I am saying. And I think it is essentially the mistake they made when designing 4e (basically picking one side in the 'what is wrong with 3e' debate over balance and mage supremacy).

At this stage though what can they really do to fix the problem aside from double down on 4e or start over and go for broad appeal?

One issue I realized the modular approach creates is it will basically mean these edition wars we have on the forums will likely spread like wild fire at the table as groups debate what options to include/exclude and as people move from one gaming group to another.

 

[talok55]

But, again, if this is true, then how do you explain a 100%/year increase in DDI subscriptions?

You'd think if a large chunk didn't like the game after buying the core three, that you'd have a similar pattern with the subscription service - lots of early subs and then a slow (or maybe not so slow) decline as people let their subs run out.

So, how do you explain the strength of the DDI if the gaming public is rejecting 4e?

Because a DDI subscription is cheaper and easier to use than a bunch of hardback books, especially if the books will be errated or "rules updated" into uselessness (as was the case due to 4E's endless stream of errata) a few months after release. I suspect the increase in DDI subscriptions was more about current 4E players using it to replace buying books instead of new players getting DDI subscriptions. I could be wrong , but this seems very likely.

 

[Mercutio01]

Because a DDI subscription is cheaper and easier to use than a bunch of hardback books, especially if the books will be errated or "rules updated" into uselessness (as was the case due to 4E's endless stream of errata) a few months after release. I suspect the increase in DDI subscriptions was more about current 4E players using it to replace buying books instead of new players getting DDI subscriptions. I could be wrong , but this seems very likely.

To that I'd add that the DDI added new apps each year that weren't present as promised at the beginning. I've heard people talk about the Monster Creator and Character Builders as some of the best resources for D&D, but neither of those were working when 4E hit the streets. I don't think it's 100% on the strength of 4E as a game that added subscribers to DDI. I think it was finally delivering on the promises they'd completely failed to live up do at launch.

EDIT: My mistake. I don't subscribe to DDI and I thought they had finally made a beta version of a VTT. Still, the DDI tools slowly came to existence in the years after launch, and then changed shape completely from a downloadable system to one controlled completely online.

EDIT 2: Now I see that they have indeed launched a beta version of VTT.

 

[qstor]

>No orc vs pie as the 1st adventure for 5e

I'm glad you figured it out!!

Mike

 

[Janaxstrus]

100K subscribers is less than 5% of the people playing D&D 25 years ago. How many of those are paid, vs given away for taking part in events and such? More things we don't know, meaning # of subscribers is just as "useless" as the reports from reputable monitoring companies that PF was outselling 4e over the last 3 quarters (some of which predate the 5e announcement)

50 million is the amount needed to become a FLAGSHIP product. Not just to exist in Hasbro (as has been mentioned quite a few times). That wasn't a "make 50 million or get dropped". I believe it was Umbran or Morrus who mentioned that Hasbro only made 650 million last year, and they have far more than 13 product lines. TSR made 40 million back in the 80s....adjust that for inflation...and it can be done.

Like 4e or not, the changes to the game, the changes to settings and all the associated baggage lost them customers. Far more than they gained in new players, or we wouldn't be here right now. Good lord, their superstar writer (Salvatore) even called them out in public about the game and the changes. That's an issue.

If they want a successful 5e, they need to walk the line between keeping the 4e people and bringing back the lapsed customers. Loosing the guy with the old school credentials and trust is not the way to do this. They need to bring someone else in that the prior edition people have some faith in, or they need to hit a homerun with the open playtest.
If they can't do that, then they should just make 4.5, and give up on ever getting those people back.
I will download the open playtest docs, I will run a group through the scenerios. If it feels more like 4e than 1/2/3 or even better, it's own system, I will be done with it. THIS is their shot to take my gaming money away from Paizo.
I WANT to spend money on D&D and a shiny new edition. I like new books. By the same token, they've constantly failed to deliver over the last 4 years, and my patience is at an end.

Show us you want us back by bringing in someone with old school credentials or make sure 5e is it's own animal by the 24th of May.

 

[qstor]

Well, as a 3e-phile myself, and one who greatly admires Monte's work, it's neither disaster nor nirvana. I might have given 5e a look based solely on Monte's contribution. But I'm going to be far less likely to do so now. Fortunately, because of the OGL and Pathfinder, my fate as a gamer is not tied to the success of the new edition.

I kinda feel the same way. I'm drifting towards not getting the books. I got a bunch of the 4e books to play with friends and cause I'm kind of a collector. I don't have all of the 4e books by any means and I don't play it all that often. I'm more of a Pathfinder fan.

Mike

 

[Dice4Hire]

Ill most likely get the basic books, but how much I'll play will depend on how well it plays. I am really looking for a good system to use online as 4E has too many interrupts, I do not find casters well balanced in 3.x and finding players for virtually every other game is near impossible.

But I will give 5E a good look. Why not?

 

[DMKastmaria]

Ill most likely get the basic books, but how much I'll play will depend on how well it plays. I am really looking for a good system to use online as 4E has too many interrupts, I do not find casters well balanced in 3.x and finding players for virtually every other game is near impossible.

But I will give 5E a good look. Why not?

There's a ton of older edition online gaming going on. Mostly with Google+ video hangouts. See the calendar and other pages for info.

ConstantCon