Moral Dilemma: Killing and Deaths in RPGs

[LongTimeLurker]

It's much more mature to judge others online, right? To me, this looks like a outsized reaction (multiple posts) to a trivial thing (an anecdote about a young player).

Yes, having a conversation about our different points of view is totally, like, immature. Sorry bro!

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Sadly, I have. As absurd as it might seem, earlier this year I saw a 40-year-old (who still lives with his parents) reduced to tears over his PC's fate.

It wasn't D&D, but that is a moot point.

I hope it was Paranoia.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

It's much more mature to judge others online, right? To me, this looks like a outsized reaction (multiple posts) to a trivial thing (an anecdote about a young player).

it's more than an anecdote; it speaks to the general culture surrounding rpgs these days.

sorry if you feel I'm being immature by conversating at you with a different viewpoint. I kn ow some people these days consider words to be, shudder, violence...

 

[BookTenTiger]

it's more than an anecdote; it speaks to the general culture surrounding rpgs these days.

sorry if you feel I'm being immature by conversating at you with a different viewpoint. I kn ow some people these days consider words to be, shudder, violence...

You don't know the person in the anecdote. You don't know what was happening in their lives. You don't know if they had a crummy day, or if they just have really strong emotions.

What I see here is that you are judging someone for feeling sad. Furthermore, you are judging a young player for feeling sad. From my perspective, that's just not a kind thing to do.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I hope it was Paranoia.

Nah, it was the Degenesis setting, using a very modified 5e system.

The PC didn't even die, although he had taken a pretty sizeable setback. Possibly unrunnable.

Thing is, that player had lost PCs killed before. I don't know why this incident caused such an emotional outbreak.

 

[Darth Solo]

Wow.

D&D PCs CAN DIE. Maybe you didn't emphasize that early on. I tell players this at the start so it isn't surprising. Roll a new PC if you like. But abandon the game or hobby because of that? LoL! You just need to find a group that understands how the game works and it won't be such a ridiculous issue.

You can run D&D as a non-lethal game if you want as long as you note this before play starts: you can as GM just say 0 HP = incapacitated rather than dead. Are there "safer" games? FATE works. Look it over.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Wow.

D&D PCs CAN DIE. Maybe you didn't emphasize that early on. I tell players this at the start so it isn't surprising. Roll a new PC if you like. But abandon the game or hobby because of that? LoL! You just need to find a group that understands how the game works and it won't be such a ridiculous issue.

You can run D&D as a non-lethal game if you want as long as you note this before play starts: you can as GM just say 0 HP = incapacitated rather than dead. Are there "safer" games? FATE works. Look it over.

He had had PCs die before. I've never made any secret that PCs can, and will, die over the course of the game. Regardless of the system, death is always permanent at my table. And again, it wasn't D&D.

And no, I cannot consider FATE. That is not the path of a righteous gamer.

 

[Thunderfoot]

This where I feel very fortunate. I was trained to kill by my country. There are rules of engagement and when you squeeze the trigger, there is no taking back the bullet.

Killing others may be necessary, when you ate in that situation it is 99% kill or be killed and death of you or your enemy is the only real outcome if one party does not surrender (wounds just mean a delay in the process).

It's very hard to convey that sense to a bunch od table-bound gamers who have never faced the consequences of their actions or the actions of others upon them.

Traveller is a good game to use, Star Trek the RPG has a good mix of life and death situations without constant killing.

As for the youngling, I took a pragmatic approach to RPG intro to young players. I would explain the game and then if they seemed interested would give them a stock character, play a short solo and kill them immediately. Yep 1E DM fiat killed. D E D, dead...

And then explain that this is a possibilty that could happen to their character if they choose to play. If they didn't handle that, they didn't play.
It's a brutal way, but it's the warrior way and in a combat game, it's a true test.

 

[Maletherin]

Yes.

Do you know why most players choose to fight and kill the enemies? Because they know they are going to win. The game is rigged in favour of the PC, particularly in battle. It's not so much a matter of rules (even though the newer the edition, the more generous the death/dying rules) but a matter of assuming that the PCs MUST encounter killable monsters, and most of them should be EASY to kill so that you can have lots of encounters.

It's an extreme idea, but what if you start by default having the majority of the enemies be BETTER than the PCs in combat? If the players start learning that picking a fight is a real risk, they are going to change their strategy for the whole game. They are going to use other ways than violence first, to reach their ends. Like normal people do in real life...

This is one reason I mostly play Runequest or Harnmaster. Death can come at any time.

Alas, my games are heavy role-play without much combat, which came as a relief after years of D&D and players always looking for a fight.

 

[GMMichael]

As for the youngling, I took a pragmatic approach to RPG intro to young players. I would explain the game and then if they seemed interested would give them a stock character, play a short solo and kill them immediately. Yep 1E DM fiat killed. D E D, dead...

I cried just reading this.

When your RPG says something to the effect of, "when X happens, just throw away your character sheet," that's a good point to ask if you really want to play the game.