Morale saves

[Meatpuppet]

Is anyone using morale saves (from heroes of battle) in their game?

I was thinking of using morale saves in my new campaign but I'm not sure if they would fit well in a non-war setting.

I'd sure like some feedback

Thanx in advance

 

[Silveras]

Older editions of (A)D&D had Morale as a monster stat "built-in"; the removal of morale in 3.x was something I noticed as a change when it came out.

The PROBLEM with morale rules is that sometimes, people forget that they should not apply. As mentioned in Heroes of Battle, when taking the Morale checks into Dungeon environments, the monsters are often found "in their lairs". In other words, they are already IN the location to which they would be likely to retreat/flee.

As long as you keep that in mind, then many random encounters could benefit from the morale rules. Not all monsters that you meet roaming the countryside are dumb enough to stand and keep fighting to the death. Rather than make a check, though, you could achieve similar effect by making a note that "this monster tries to withdraw when reduces to {half hit points} or flee when reduced to {one-quarter hit points}"

 

[FEADIN]

I don't use morale, I try to play the intelligence of the creature and how she sees life and death.

 

[Meatpuppet]

The PROBLEM with morale rules is that sometimes, people forget that they should not apply. As mentioned in Heroes of Battle, when taking the Morale checks into Dungeon environments, the monsters are often found "in their lairs". In other words, they are already IN the location to which they would be likely to retreat/flee.

Wouldn't a +5 bonus to morale save be more appropriate in these situations?

I don't know maybe I'm wrong but a creature, even if attacked in its lair, could be tempted to take a hike (against ovewhelming odds that is)

 

[IronWolf]

I don't use morale, I try to play the intelligence of the creature and how she sees life and death.

I don't use morale either. I play the creatures as close as to how I think they would act in a given combat situation. If their losses are heavy then the remaining ones just might try to retreat or flat out run away. I don't need the dice for that.

 

[BluWolf]

In 25 years of gaming I have never made a morale check in an RPG setting. Its always roleplay the sitauational awareness along with the presumed intelligence level of the creature.

I jsut have not seen it necessary.

 

[Silveras]

Wouldn't a +5 bonus to morale save be more appropriate in these situations?

I don't know maybe I'm wrong but a creature, even if attacked in its lair, could be tempted to take a hike (against ovewhelming odds that is)

The key is "take a hike" to where? If the monster is already in the place where it would go under other circumstances, the check is pointless.

However, I should point out that the Morale checks in Heroes of Battle are much more significant than those used in previous editions.

Previous versions had results of "stay and fight" or "run" only. In the progression outlined in Heroes of Battle, a wider range of effects can result (Shaken, Cowering, Nauseated, and so on). Many of those effects were previously generally available by the use of spells but not often by other means.

I am actually pleased to see that appear, both because I disliked the implied lack of a retreat option for monsters (although, as other posters have mentioned, playing the monsters based on their motivations is better); and because I like seeing the range of options other than "stay" or "go". Under the Heroes of Battle setup, a monster trapped in its lair could be forced to stay, but could also fail such a morale check and be "Shaken" while fighting.

However, I was paraphrasing the advice in Heroes of Battle (see the Morale in the Dungeon section of the Morale rules) when I said that sometimes, in the dungeon, the morale check is inappropriate because the monster is "in its lair". It is up to the DM to decide whether a given monster "doesn't need to make a check" or, as you suggested, "gets a +/-x modifier". A mindless undead set to guard a tomb, for example, probably doesn't even need to make a check at any point; a single living warrior 1 kobold facing a party of adventurers probably has a -2 (or worse) modifier when cornered; a single living warrior 1 hobgoblin might get a +2 bonus (instead) when cornered.

 

[Crothian]

If I used them for monsters, I'd have to use them for the players. And I don't think they'd like that.

 

[Silveras]

If I used them for monsters, I'd have to use them for the players. And I don't think they'd like that.

The standard for the rule as presented is that they do not apply to PCs (but would apply to NPC allies). Morale checks for PCs is presented as a variant, however; it is recommended that it be unanimously agreed to before being used.

 

[Meatpuppet]

Like Silveras said It's not just save or run away.

And to make this rule PC friendly, I'm thinking of lowering the "you make a morale save once you reach half your total HP" condition to one quarter.

There's also another aspect of this rule which is, IMHO, very interesting: rally checks can be made by allies to boost the morale of those who have failed their morale save. Using this, Charisma, suddenly becomes much more important in combat.