Morality, oh and come in and help out!

[Tonguez]

Evil (as a creature descriptor) only appears with outsiders as far as i can tell.

I too have not found a creature that has the Evil Descriptor without it also being an Outsider

However - there is no rule saying that this can't be done. Monster designers could create a Bog Giant with descriptors Evil and Aquatic if they wanted to. That noone has done it before does not mean it can't be done in future

also applying similar logic the Evil Descriptor is redundant if a creature is evil by virtue of its alignment - why describe a Hellhound that is Chaotic Evil as an Evil Outsider?

 

[randomling]

I don't like to run games where everything is black and white. I like shades of grey, and in my campaigns, I like characters who are truly evil (or truly good) to be exceptional -- certainly among humanoids. IMC, even kobolds, goblins and orcs are not universally (or even predominantly) evil. For me, orcs and elves are both CN cultures, dwarves and kobolds both LN. Lawful and chaotic tendencies are much more common. Paladins are rare. As in the real world, most people like to think of themselves as more "good" than they really are.

IMC, I guess that unless Hugraith would be unlikely to detect as evil in the first place (like others, I read the spell as detecting creatures with the [evil] descriptor, undead, and clerics of evil deities). If a paladin were to suspect him of nefarious dealings, I'd hope that he would report his suspicions to the city watch.

 

[Sanackranib]

evil opponents

one aspect that I think is missing is the DEGREES OF EVIL. while a commoner might be evil he's not that powerfull thus not that evil. wheras a devil is boing to be a much larger "ping" on the evil scale and thus will be more likle to not only register on the scale but also need to be delt with much sooner.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Dragonblade did a good job of describing what I think a paladin would do in the given situation.

As to the debate, I think that too many DMs believe a paladin has to be some sort of lawyer. From the PHB, pg. 89:

A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished. Alhandra, a paladin who fights evil without mercy and who protects the innocent without hesitation, is lawful good.

Note the parts about hating to see the guilty go unpunished and fighting evil without mercy.

Just because a paladin is lawful does not mean he needs to respect and follow every law. Nor does it mean he has to withhold his smite because there is a sheriff's office nearby, or the lich cries out "spare me!"

In D&D evil is evil, and must be destroyed. A paladin is not a lawyer to wade through the laws of the land, he is the Holy Sword of God, placed on earth to smite the Hand of Darkness.

Of course, this doesn't mean he's stupid, nor does it mean he'll go around smiting everyone who detects as evil (the Detect Evil ability itself allows for degrees of evil, after all.) But if the paladin decides a foe is evil, and if he has the opportunity to destroy that foe, he takes it. It's what he was born for.

 

[el-remmen]

My question is (and I don't thinlk anyone has brought it up), why would the paladin 'detect evil' on this guy to begin with?

Secondly, it would be close to impossible for the paladin to detect evil on anyone or anything without drawing attention to himself. I have always ruled that if it acts like spell - then the verbal and somatic components are required.

So if the paladin suddenly stands, clutches his holy symbol to his chect, bows his head and intones, "Oh great god of goodness, give me sight beyond sight to look into the hearts of men!" - Don't you think that'd be considered rude?

 

[Skade]

edging off topic

My opinions on the paladins abilities changes with each campaign setting that I run-it really depends on the context of the game. Is it Evil with a capital "E" or with a little "e". Most games I tend to go with the paladin only being able to detect Big Evil-a simple phrase for something much more complex than game rules can accuratly explain. I do not consider someone petty and mean spirited necesarilly evil. Now I do consider somone who plots out murders and other cruelty to be evil, even if they have not yet performed those actions. There must be a real will for malice for my Paladins tobe able to detect it. I generally only apply this to normal races however. A hag, even if she somehow has never eaten anyone, is always Evil and detected as such.

Now something else that I do is allow paladins to detct undead, not as undead per say, but Evil. Basically anything created with a spell with the vile or evil descriptor, or any nongood undead show up as evil on the paladins radar. This too powerful?

The first thing that popped into my head was the movie Unbreakable. In particular, the part where the hero is "scanning" the crowd, and is made aware of various dark deeds people have done. He keeps scanning until he finds one that is a) totally reprehensible in his eyes, and b) something he can change with direct action.

It's not a perfect analogy (I don't think of the protagonist in Unbreakable as a paladin, the paladin doesn't get to know of an evil beings deeds, etc.), but I think it's a pretty good reference point.

I would not mind seeing this as an abilty the paladin gets at higher levels, rather than yet another cure disease. It would be a pain on the DM sometimes, but very useful.

one aspect that I think is missing is the DEGREES OF EVIL. while a commoner might be evil he's not that powerfull thus not that evil. wheras a devil is boing to be a much larger "ping" on the evil scale and thus will be more likle to not only register on the scale but also need to be delt with much sooner.

I don't know if I agree with you on this. Two thoughts on the subject:
1) Is a being more evil because of its nature, or because of its choices? The devil is creature formed of evil, it being the very stuff of its creation. It exists (with a few exceptions) in a realm of cruelty and hate where the only real crime is to break the system (being a devil and in DnD lawful rather than a demon, to whom that would not be an issue). It is evil without comparison. It has no choice. Now the commoner does have a choice. Even if raisd by evil cultists at some point there is a rational thought of being something else, seeing an example of a normal life and tossing it aside. They have chosen their nature.
2) This is an extension of the first idea really. Imagine hannibal Lector, but take away his niceties, his manners. This man will kill children, he has no compassion in the least. He is however a 1st level human commoner. Is he not just as evil than say a Kyton, whose enjoyment is part of its nature in much the same way as our psychopath?

 

[jdavis]

My question is (and I don't thinlk anyone has brought it up), why would the paladin 'detect evil' on this guy to begin with?

Secondly, it would be close to impossible for the paladin to detect evil on anyone or anything without drawing attention to himself. I have always ruled that if it acts like spell - then the verbal and somatic components are required.

So if the paladin suddenly stands, clutches his holy symbol to his chect, bows his head and intones, "Oh great god of goodness, give me sight beyond sight to look into the hearts of men!" - Don't you think that'd be considered rude?

Where I am from that is pretty common.......


Seriously that would be a setting decision, I don't think there is a actual description of how the Paladin detects evil in the book. He could just close his eyes and concentrate real hard. If he actually has to stand up and cast it like a spell then that probably would take out alot of non adventure uses of it, it would be considered very rude in most situations, almost like he is acussing everybody as being secretly evil and is just looking for proof. If he can just concentrate and know then he would probably do it everytime he entered a room with people he hadn't met before.

 

[hammymchamham]

Well in the real worlds everything is done in finer shades of grey, in the dnd universe (maybe not your campaign world but the default setting at least) everything is either black or white. And for a Paladin it is even worse, for them it is either shining white or pitch black.

There are many real world philosophies and religions that say things are done in a shade of black and white, not grey.

 

[hammymchamham]

My question is (and I don't thinlk anyone has brought it up), why would the paladin 'detect evil' on this guy to begin with?

Secondly, it would be close to impossible for the paladin to detect evil on anyone or anything without drawing attention to himself. I have always ruled that if it acts like spell - then the verbal and somatic components are required.

So if the paladin suddenly stands, clutches his holy symbol to his chect, bows his head and intones, "Oh great god of goodness, give me sight beyond sight to look into the hearts of men!" - Don't you think that'd be considered rude?

Paladins can use Detect Evil as a spell like ability (page 42 PHB). It doesn't have verbal or somatic componets (page 158 PHB), so all the Paladin needs to do is grasp his holy symbol. No need for a prayer.

 

[Kyramus]

just a small note for reference.

It states Evil Creature HD/5

Unless Huigrath is an evil cleric, OR a cleric of an EVIL god/dess. Then The evil detected will rather be dim or low.

One would say that If you are a paladin and you detected dim evil in a person, an investigation is the right course of action then to hand him over to the authorities.

Even in this example, a Cleric of an evil god/dess might not have an alignment of evil. he might be neutral but will register evil under the detect evil spell.

Something I picked up from another thread dealing with Detect evil awhile back.

I've also compiled a list of creatures based on their detect evil rating.

attached is the detect evil file.
Hope this helps you all.