Morality: What's an Evildoer?

[Nifft]

Some foes are foes due to politics, some are competitors, some are merely misunderstood, but some are a plague which should be eradicated. How do you, as a player or a DM, tell the difference?

From whom should "I surrender!" mean something?

Obvious Examples:
Captain of the an Opposing Human Army -> Political, accept surrender
Demon -> Evildoer, kill on sight
Band of Adventurers Seeking Same Treasure -> Competitor, accept surrender
Mind Flayer -> Evildoer, kill on sight

Finally, if a society is evil, but the individuals are merely misguided but redeemable, do good adventurers have a responsibility to fight the evil society? And how do they do that?

-- Nifft

 

[Zappo]

Easy, cast detect evil; if it gives you a headache (ie, 'overwhelming' aura), go for the kill. Come to think about it, kill even if the aura is just 'strong'.

Make sure to wait for the full three rounds before striking, you don't want to murder an innocent who just happens to be carrying the One Ring in his pocket.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Some foes are foes due to politics, some are competitors, some are merely misunderstood, but some are a plague which should be eradicated. How do you, as a player or a DM, tell the difference?

My players can't tell the difference. Which is part of the fun.

I mean, who would have thought that the cultists who kidnap people and drill holes into their heads are actually the good guys?

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Saying there's a singular method of determining things like this sort of trivializes the concept of morality. I really think it's a situation-by-situation kind of thing.

For example, I lean in the direction of killing demons on sight, but what if that demon is the only one possessing knowledge that will allow us to save the world (or some other such problem)? Or what if it's a Risen demon? That's pretty rare (much more so than Fallen Celestials, IMO), but not impossible.

And while I'm predisposed towards accepting the surrender of a captain of an opposing army, if he's been leading his men to do things like slaughter, rape, and pillage, I'm prepared to deny him the mercy he failed to show others.

The specifics of the situation dictate the response, IMO.

EDIT: to fix grammatical irksomeness and missing part of a sentence

 

[Darkness]

Easy, cast detect evil; if it gives you a headache (ie, 'overwhelming' aura), go for the kill. Come to think about it, kill even if the aura is just 'strong'.

Make sure to wait for the full three rounds before striking, you don't want to murder an innocent who just happens to be carrying the One Ring in his pocket.

Careful, there; level 5+ clerics of evil deities show up as "strong," too - even if the clerics themselves are actually, say, LN.

Also, undead count as "strong" if they have 10+ HD - regardless of their alignment.

Of course, if that's not relevant in your campaign, more power to you.

But as a default, it is...

Heh. And since we're trying to give advice for PCs, that's quite important to note, no?
After all, PCs might well have to face the consequences for their actions if they primarily trust on a "magic alignment finder" to determine who they should kill and who not, and slay a relative innocent (such as a N - or even LG - ghost) because of it.

Sure, some people might argue that "they deserved it" because they were priests of an evil god / became undead / whatever.
But we're talking about good-aligned adventurers here - and being good is about doing (rather than just killing "evil") even if it puts you at a disadvantage (otherwise, you're neutral or even evil, depending on what you've "justified" this way), not about an "easy way out."

 

[hong]

If they start alignment threads, they're evil.

 

[Horacio]

If they start alignment threads, they're evil.

And their threads deserve to die...

 

[S'mon]

Demons, devils, evil cultists/religious fanatics - those who are irrationally, implacably dedicated to woe, and not subject to argument, politics, concessions etc. My sig quote refers to al Qaeda, the important point being that there is no way to reach a settlement with evildoers - in their actions they resemble a virus, volcano or other force of nature.

 

[Existence]

Hang on, what if the person/ thing/ monster who is about to get killed just has a different moral code than the party? What then? Or what if they are completely amoral?

For example. A CG character who decides that they will live their life the way they want. Regardless of society's expectations. This character accidentally kills someone as a result of some external force and thus ends up on the chopping block. What then? Do the PCs intervene and try to stop the killing of a good character or do they let him die, safe in the knowledge that he was "bad".


Also, read The Outsider by Albert Camus. It's an excellent book and poses some really good questions on morallity and society's views as a whole.

 

[2WS-Steve]

For a D&D game where you have spells and powers that specifically affect evil I like one of the approaches suggested in the Book of Vile Darkness (and mentioned more briefly in the Player's Handbook).

Evil is a physical force in the universe. The races that say things like "always evil" are such not because of life choices, but because this energy form operates through them. I'd run a campaign like this with a dualistic pantheon, where the positive plane and the negative plane were the true driving forces of the universe and the gods somehow subordinate to them. Races with variable alignments would have free will and could choose which path they follow but in doing so they give themselves over to the dark or light.

I wouldn't run all my campaigns this way but I've run plenty of shades of gray games and it would be an interesting change of pace to treat alignment like this. How about that, now that I've written this I noticed it's just Star Wars.

Regardless, even given this treatment there'd still be some ethical dilemmas. For instance, it'd be strange to hold an orc (or even a demon) blameworthy for his evil actions if he lacked free will. Still, we put down mad dogs even though they aren't blameworthy and I assume that the inhabitants of a world like this would react similarly to creatures motivated by evil energy.