More Dark SUn tidbits by Rich Baker

[Nahat Anoj]

However, won't this mean the DM's will be the only ones buying it?

Well, there is new race information, and there is some new information for classes (new builds, etc.) So I think players will still pick it up.

I don't know much about Dark Sun aside from what I can read on Wikipedia. But it seems to me that starting out with Tyr as a free city is okay by me. From what I'm hearing on this thread, that outcome seems hardcoded into the setting. And I think starting out with a free city is a good idea. It allows for quite of a bit of adventure and intrigue - there are no doubt many factions vying for influence in the city, and spies or double agents of other sorcerer kings trying to control the situation or to kill the nascent "democracy" while it's still young.

 

[Campbell]

Is post-revolution Tyr really a democratic government? From the blurb on the adventure it sounds like Tyr doesn't really have an established government since Kalak's fall. When I see the words 'revolutionary council' democracy is the last thing that races to mind. Instead I picture a sort of defacto war council that's trying to adjust to governing after a protracted campaign.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

When I see the words 'revolutionary council' democracy is the last thing that races to mind.

To me, "revolutionary council" has just as an ominous and terrifying an option as can be imagined. The 20th century is filled with revolutions where the "purges" after the deposing were more violent and fear-filled than the overthrown tyrant's rule.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Try may only have a few paragraphs, directly, but it's influence etc on the setting, is huge, as it's the "economic juggernaut" of the Tablelands.
also, it had a HUGE colour map in the boxed set, if you recall? So, that's not "Minor", jeesh

 

[Mark Hope]

Try may only have a few paragraphs, directly, but it's influence etc on the setting, is huge, as it's the "economic juggernaut" of the Tablelands.

Well, it has the only iron mine, but economic juggernaut it's not. In the first boxed set, the iron mine isn't even open any more, and Tyr's merchant houses are in collapse. Vordon is a laughing stock. Balic, on the other hand - there's a real economic juggernaut.

also, it had a HUGE colour map in the boxed set, if you recall? So, that's not "Minor", jeesh

What does the map have to do with how much impact Kalak's death has on the setting? Other than the inclusion of the words "Preservers' District", the map doesn't change after the revolution. Not seeing your point here.

 

[catsclaw227]

For my tastes, I don't mind that Tyr is free. As others have posted, I had assumed that it was supposed to fall and taking it forther, I posit that may have been an intended event when TSR produced the first box set.

It really doesn't matter to me either way, but at least it offers a variant city-state to start in other than one that isn't ruled by a Sorcerer-King.

 

[edbonny]

Other than the re-releasing of the Prism Pentad series, are there only these 4 Dark Sun products scheduled for release next year?

Dark Sun Campaign Guide (looks to be a Player's Guide/Campaign Guide combo?)
Dark Sun Creature Catalog (is this the first setting specific monster-type manual?)
Dark Sun Marauders of the Dune Sea adventure
Dungeon Tiles of Athas

I was hoping for more - some new novels, a Player's Guide, a 4e Dragon Kings. I really loved Dark Sun.

 

[SSquirrel]

This is about the extent of campaign involvement WotC has in 4E. Put out some initial products, seed some extra stuff from time to time in DDI/Dragon and move on to the next. Keeps them from the problem TSR had of actively supporting too many campaign worlds at once. I believe there has been some talk of novels, but that is typically not tied as closely with the game development. Barring things like the Prism Pentad being so closely tied to the adventures of Dark Sun or the Avatar trilogy heralding 2E.

 

[kilamanjaro]

Other than the re-releasing of the Prism Pentad series, are there only these 4 Dark Sun products scheduled for release next year?

Dark Sun Campaign Guide (looks to be a Player's Guide/Campaign Guide combo?)
Dark Sun Creature Catalog (is this the first setting specific monster-type manual?)
Dark Sun Marauders of the Dune Sea adventure
Dungeon Tiles of Athas

I was hoping for more - some new novels, a Player's Guide, a 4e Dragon Kings. I really loved Dark Sun.

I really loved your Dark Sun material for Dragon. You should totally try to get something in to Dragon or Dungeon!

 

[Wik]

Okay. Time to muddy the waters a bit while I try to clear things up.

DARK SUN was made in the early 90s, when most of the major game designers had made a pretty big discovery - novels were huge sellers of product, and they helped sell game product (at least, in theory). The success of DRAGONLANCE and FORGOTTEN REALMS novels meant that future products had to tie in with novel sales - I'd be surprised if product design in the 1990s didn't factor in novel development.

Along with that came the idea of "metaplot". Novels will push forward the plotline of the setting, so the setting must be built to accomodate that. and it wasn't just TSR that was doing this - FASA had a fun old time introducing metaplot elements and progressing the campaign setting heedless of PC interactions. It's one of the reasons I avoid SHADOWRUN.

When DARK SUN was released, they didn't have space for everything. The intro to Dragon Kings mentions this - much of the info in there was cut from the boxed set due to space limitations. And, I believe it was in the 30 years of D&D guide, but the author of the Prism Pentad (Troy Denning?) mentioned that he was writing the novels while writing the last bit of the boxed set.

In other words, he already knew Tyr was going to be "Free" when he was designing it. And you can see that in the original boxed set. We're in the "Tyr Region". There's a map of Tyr. The scant info on Tyr all points towards a revolution that will involve the slaves. The first adventure, being written before the set was released, was about freedom in Tyr. And every product released in the first year was either about slaves, or Tyr.

Looking at the product run of the times, I think you can readily conclude that it was meant from the get-go that Tyr was to be free. The Tyr situation was built for the novels, unfortunately, because that was where the money lies.

The point of all this is, Tyr was never designed to be ruled by Kalak. It was made to be free - this is why Tyr has the iron mines and a large population... to give it a game reason why it could possibly have leverage to remain free. It's also why the Tyr section doesn't detail templars (they wouldn't be a player option in most campaigns).

To say that WotC should release a product exactly like the original boxed set, with Tyr in pre-revolution phase, only works if WotC is going to have an extended product line. And they won't. So, if Tyr is pre-revolution in their book, it will remain pre-revolution. And I think a vast majority of players are more familiar with post-revolution Tyr. Post-revolution Tyr opens up more adventure possibilities. It has more thematic variations. And, almost as importantly, it means that old-school players can still use some of their 2e Dark Sun products with no conversion, since EVERY product (beyond Dragon Kings) released after the original set assumes a free Tyr. There is no other change from the original boxed set that is more wide-reaching.