More Dark SUn tidbits by Rich Baker

[Dausuul]

Except they can't move through the enemies that have moved up in front of him.

In short, everyone becomes a ranged attacker, so he can plug hallways. Boring.

Because fighting in a 10-foot hallway is soooo exciting normally.

Or, in an open fight (and let's be honest... an above average number of dark sun games are going to involve open areas... which is a good thing!), the half-giant of large size will attract more people in base to base combat. Which screws up the math - he'll get hit a lot more. Plus he's easier to flank. Plus it's harder for him to get cover. Plus...

Basically, the large half-giant is gonna get destroyed.

No, he isn't. Like I said - I've had a Large-sized character in my games. It's not a big deal. It did change the combat dynamic some, but it didn't wreck anything and he didn't get slaughtered.

A regular Medium-size character can be surrounded by up to 8 melee foes. That's more melee opponents than exist in the typical encounter. The Large character has a theoretical limit of 12, but it's extremely rare for that limit to come into play.

I don't see the big deal of making him medium. Especially because it's not like it's a change, or anything. the Only real effect of being "large" in 2e was the fact that you took different damage from certain weapons and armour was more expensive to wear... "size of a creature's base" was not a factor.

It isn't a big deal, particularly; I just wanted to challenge the assumption that Large-sized PCs were unworkable, because they're totally not.

 

[Greg K]

Indeed. If it's bad we can direct the lynch mob to ENWorld to find him. Man, that's convenience for ya! *grin*

From my perspective, he would be the only one safe from a lynch mob, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Of the few WOTC supplements that I have liked dating back to 3e, Ari's name has been attached to most of them. The few bits from him that I didn't like later turned out to have been R&D changes (Then again, I don't recall Ari, actually, stating what his original mechanics looked like just his proposal was different).

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

It isn't a big deal, particularly; I just wanted to challenge the assumption that Large-sized PCs were unworkable, because they're totally not.

I'm going to try and throw some support here. As a DM, I've allowed a player to port their large-sized half giant to 4E, and I've even allowed her to carry large weapons.

It really has not been a problem at all. The player has even tweaked the character to be optimized for wading into the center of a mob and mowing the mob down, but even so, it has not disrupted the game or detracted from the fun. As stated before, most of the advanteges are theoretical.

There are enough changes to the 4E combat system that large size weapons and characters don't have the same degree of advantage that they used to have in 3.5. (IMO)

 

[Rechan]

One Bad Egg ran the numbers for balancing a large sized race.

 

[hailstop]

I mean, all the priestly classes can be wrapped represented by the cleric. Gladiators are covered by the multi-classing. There was a bit on a character tree, and there was a section on piecemeal armor. But really, it seems that 90% of the crunch needed to play is races and monsters.

I have to wonder if, given the fact that there are now other healers than Clerics, whether or not they pretty much eliminate the Divine Power source from Dark Sun.

I can see the Elemental Clerics basically Shamans with Elementals instead of Spirits.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

I bet they ditch the elemental power source entirely. I think we'll see the divine classes use elemental mantles or the SKs as their source for divne abilities.

Don't forget "everything is core" is a central conceit of the edition

 

[Wik]

Except, Hadrian, they've already said they're dropping that idea for Dark Sun. Not everything is core. They're going to suggest ways to take things not presented in Dark Sun and "athasianize" them, but they're not goign to say "hey, there are now beholders on Athas!".

And apparently, there won't be a divine power source. Goodbye clerics.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

I missed that...at the Gen Con announcement, Bill S said "we recognize that Dark Sun is different".

 

[Wik]

Wish I could post the link for you. I'm sure someone has it kicking around.

and Dausuul - we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I've played games where I've had a large base (I was mounted) and over the course of four or five encounters, found that my size got in the way several times. I was easier to hit (no cover from artillery), I stood out like a beacon, and yeah, it was MUCH easier to flank me.

Really, the only thing you're arguing for is a larger base size (4 squares instead of 1). I mean, you can make half-giants be BIG without making them take up so much space on a battlefield.

I really can't see wotc allowing that in what is going to be an ICONIC race. Same for the Thri-Kreen (remember, they were large in Dark Sun, too!). It's just way too many headaches.

All that being said, there's nothing stopping you from house-ruling. Absolutely nothing. The goal of the Dark Sun design is to make the game as useful to as many players as possible. Sometimes, that means sacrifices/changes need to be made. I really don't see medium-sized half-giants being much of a sacrifice.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

Wish I could post the link for you. I'm sure someone has it kicking around.

Do you know if it was in an editorial announcement, a Q&A, or a blog? I don't mind trying to hunt it down.

I can't say I'm disappointed to learn that divine power source is out of Athas.
But now I'm back to wondering what they'll do about templars.