More lay-offs at WOTC! [Merged]

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Re: Layoffs @ WoTC

AussieMoose said:

It all comes down to the $$$ in a big corporation (despite the fact that a big corporation can cover more $$ than a small one. :) )

Thats my 5 cents, if it makes any sense at all.

If not, assume I am a braindead aussie with a koala. :D

It makes total sense- and that is the way it should be- or else there would be no stock market in the first place.

BTW- I want a koala. :D

FD
 

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Totally unrelated to .. well anything

Furn_Darkside said:


BTW- I want a koala. :D

FD

Me too, but the furry, stoned little fuzzbags are endangered.

Do you know that they growl louder than dogs and are vicious little sadists? (when not stoned from too many eucalyptus leaves that is):D
 

James Heard said:

I mean, if you change Coca-Cola by diluting it's consistency and quality and another cola company comes out there with your old employees and starts making Coca-Cola like everyone likes it then you've effectively shot your brand name in it's foot in the interest of checking your bottom line.
Actually, something similar to this happened with the New Coke debacle at the height of the Cola Wars. (Unfortunately, this example goes against what you were trying to prove with yours.)

Pepsi and Coke had been fighting for market share for years, and by the 1980's Pepsi was winning by a considerable margin. Coke had just created Diet Coke, not by taking the sugar out of regular Coke, but by formulating an entire new drink that was diet and still tasted like Coke. Diet Coke was the #1 selling diet drink, but even with those sales, Pepsi was still outselling Coke by a large margin. Coke decided, "If Pepsi is what people want, then Pepsi is what we'll give them." They discovered that if they replaced the nutrisweet in Diet Coke with High Fructose Corn Syrup, it tasted almost exactly like Pepsi. So that became New Coke.

When the Coca-Cola co. did their research on the product, they found that in blind taste tests, people picked new Coke a lot more than either Classic Coke or Pepsi. They were sure they had a winner. So sure, in fact, that they decided to stop making the old formula of Coke after they announced the new Coke (I can still remember the announcement, so I guess that kind of dates me, huh? :) ) And after they announced the New Coke, there was a huge public outcry. How could they change Coke? It was one of those things that was supposed to stay the same forever. Despite numerous blind tests to the contrary, nearly every Coke supporter came out saying how much the New Coke sucked. And the biggest coup of the Cola Wars came when Coca-Cola announced a return to classic Coke, and Coke's numbers immediately shot past Pepsi's.

So here's my point. People didn't gate New Coke because it was bad. They hated it because something had happened to the brand. And when they began to buy it again, they didn't do it because Coke had gotten better tasting. They did it because of the Brand. Quality had nothing to do with it. The content had little to do with it. You might say, "Yeah, but soft drinks are a little different from RPG's, " and you'd be right. But what this says about human nature doesn't change.

People care about the name brand. Why else would so many internet companies spend so much money trying to burn their brand name into people's heads? If Skip Williams, Jeff Grub, and Stan! all go form their d20 companies, a few people will be immediate supporters, because to us, those names already read like brand names. But most people don't even look at the title page of their DnD sourcebooks, and have no clue who wrote them. They bought the books because they said "Dungeons & Dragons" on them, and they would have bought them if they had been written by Monte Cook or if they had been written by Joe Nobody.

Dungeons & Dragons is the singlemost recognizable brand name in the RPG industry, followed closely by the Forgotten Realms. Unfortunately, Hasbro knows this, and they also know that as long as they keep putting out products with these brand names on them, people will keep buying them. Sure, they might lose a few of their more fanatical supporters if the quality continues in a downward spiral, but when the average reading level across the country is 7th grade, they probably don't have to worry about the majority of the public being too picky. Dungeon's and Dragons is not dead, at least not physically. Spiritually, however...

I share in the feeling that is was an immensly bad move for WotC (read, "Hasbro") to lay off (or force to leave) so many of their best creative people. I have played D&D for more than 2 decades, now, and I have many of the original products Skip and Jeff wrote. I am no longer worried about Hasbro selling D&D. If they did that, it would probably be the best thing for the hobby. I am now worried that they will hang on to it, and squeeze all of the creative talent out of it until it is a lifeless husk, kept alive only on the merit of its brand name. Because as long as the game is called Dungeons & Dragons, it will continue to sell regardless of how dubious the quality is.
 

Re: Totally unrelated to .. well anything

AussieMoose said:


Me too, but the furry, stoned little fuzzbags are endangered.

Do you know that they growl louder than dogs and are vicious little sadists? (when not stoned from too many eucalyptus leaves that is):D

I always suspected their cuteness factor was just to lure in their prey.

It works for models.

FD
 


Excellent point Toberane, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It is too much of a pipe dream I suppose for DnD to be bought by someone who cares for a change. It is a real shame what has become of our favorite past time.

Remember when all we had to worry about was mad mommas and upset churches?
 

re: Toberone's Post

I would just like to state that I agree emphatically with everything he said.

Hasbro holding onto D&D (and RPG's in general) is scary. They (read Execs not creative staff or many WoTC staff) don't understand the Genre. Simple as that. Their Marketing Gurus can't pin down the X sales factor, or what really motivates us, and most of them couldn't give a toss about roleplaying.

Many mainstream toys rely on impulse "must have" buying, RPG's don't always work like that, it is a slow buildup industry. (REALLY slow sometimes).

At the moment their is a bit of feast (as opposed to the WoTC famine) from all the other new companies doing OGL product, which sort of gluts the market.

Some sort of stabilising influence may be needed eventually so we don't just have endless piles of unnavigatable material.

I still think even a small company (but what small company could afford it) buying up the D&D Brand would revitalise it.

Only time will tell.
People mourned the change to 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed and they weren't all bad, maybe WoTC will pick up again?

:D
Wacked out Koala boy
 

Storm Raven said:


No, they gated New Coke because it is easier to strike a bargain with it than Pepsi, 7-Up or a Pit Fiend.

:D LOL!

OK, so my fingers tend to hit the wrong keys when I type too fast...
 

BluWolf said:
I have been saying this for two years.

This whole thing.

ALL OF IT!!!!!!!!!!

Layoffs and all.........

was put in motion 4 years ago by Peter Adkison and Ryan Dancey.

Mark my words.

The whole plan is yet to be revealed but it is getting closer.

closer..................

Ryan Dancey spearheaded the OGL and SRD. Without this there would be D&D and other systems, and we would not have witnessed the revitalization of the D&D name (nor would we have d20 publishers).

So Ryan purposefully created a competetive market, where WotC could take one of two routes.

1) Layoff everyone but a skeleton crew for R&D and milk the Core Rules.

2) Seek to compete against the smaller more agile companies through the relatively massive brand-name value of D&D.

Either way, the gamers win! The designers may end up loosing, and some of them have (others will find new success, see Monte Cook). It is sad to loose your job, but I am confident that the creative and brilliant minds such as those recently laid-off will have no problem gaining employment, both inside and outside of the gaming industry.

The main concern now is that the SRD be completed. Hopefully there is still enough of the old guard to get this task done. Fortunately, the "guts" of the SRD has been approved. Unfortunately, almost every d20 Shop has used stuff covered via the "Gentleman's agreement" and if Ha$bro sees fit, there could be some nasty (yet very fruitless) litigation.

So in a nutshell, Ryan Dancey and his "minions" have provided hope to the gaming community at large through the OGL. However, Ryan Dancey also introduced a mechanism that will force competition in a niche market, which competition inevitably results (in theory) in the survival of the fittest.
 

Kieran said:


Yeah, but this is a D&D fan board. It's not very comforting to know that the WOTC corporate entity will go on with or without the game we love. Once all of the people that made it great are gone, what is WOTC but a company full of beancounters, anyway.

Hey now, remember - when you use the word beancounter you have to use the name Anthony Valterra in the same sentence. We are not faceless. We have families, and are gamers, and are raising kids, go to cons and last week went to burning man. Real people here.

AV:D
 

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