More lay-offs at WOTC! [Merged]

[Lizard]

Re: The Quandry

My frustration, and I think a lot of you feel the same way, is that we are tired of seeing D&D treated as something we feel it shouldn't be. To us, it's not simply a book to sell and make a profit from, and we yearn to see it in the hands of a smaller company that perhaps would feel the same way, approaching our hobby as we do: a creative personal expression that allows us to have an entertaining social experience with friends.

Try eating 'creative personal expression'.

I notice that among all of these passionate suggestions for how to save D&D from the corporations, there is little, if any, talk of how much money YOU'RE willing to pay to keep the creators fed, clothed, and in something resembling a house while they avoid having their souls sullied by concerns of profit. Rather than talking boycotts, why not talk about setting up paypal accounts where those who believe games should be freed from corporate tyranny can DONATE MONEY so that all the creators who should be free to follow their muse unfettered by trivial concerns like 'will anyone actually BUY this?' can do so?

I also have to wonder what percentage of those on this thread bemoaning corporate greed have files on their hard drives from warez groups or P2P programs...

Let's propose a plan...

If you don't live in someplace like the Bay Area or NYC, you can live tolerably -- not well, not luxuriously, but tolerably -- for, let's say, 35K a year. If 1000 ENWorlders each contributed 35 dollars -- about the cost of one game book -- you could support one newly-fired WOTC staffer for one year. In return, said ex-staffer could place their creative work entirely under the OGL.

Is this going to happen? Hell no. Whining about other people's greed is one thing; ponying up YOUR OWN MONEY is something else. (Nor do I know of anyone, offhand, who'd go for it, though I can't help but think someone would...from what I've seen, 35K is nice money in the game industry, though it would come sans health benefits, etc)

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: The Quandry

I also have to wonder what percentage of those on this thread bemoaning corporate greed have files on their hard drives from warez groups or P2P programs...

You should complete that statement with "have files on their hard drives from warez groups or P2P programs...of products they don't own."

I have a boat-load of them, but I own every single product that I have on my machine. It's about convenience, of having the books available on my laptop or desktop, indexed, searcheable, readily available at the push of a button, and especially when I'm away from my books. It's no different than Core Rules 2.0. Actually, there is a difference. Scanners are affordable these days. Back when Core Rules 2.0 was released, you'd have to give up your first born to get a scanner.

Do I share them? Nope. Do I give them away? Nope. Do I have a right to make/have a copy of them for my personal use? Damn right I do.

Be careful with blanket statements like that. They only serve to piss people off.

 

[TeaBee]

Ok, anyone want to start a pool for when the next heart-wrenching round of WotC layoffs will happen?

I'll say... February 14th. Because Hasbro has so much love to give...

Does anyone doubt that it will be "when" the layoff happens and not "if" it happens?

 

[Maggan]

Question and food for thought

It's interesting reading everyone's opinions. I agree with some, and not with others. I guess being one of those evil ;-) guys who actually have been firing creative people to have me and my friends' web besign company survive these bad times when money aint pouring in, gives a somewhat different perspective on things. We're down from 17 to 8. And why? To be a more profitable AND creative company. Hey, some of you are thinking, that don't add up! Cutting creative talent is bad! Bad, I tell you!

Actually, not always.

Ok, WotC are firing people from the creative department. Sad, but IMO not proof of D&D going down.

Has anyone considered that WotC R&D might have been to big for its own good?

My question to all of you is: how many people do you feel need to be working in the creative department at an rpg company to produce a high quality rpg, such as D&D?

1?
5?
15?
20?

After all, Monte is doing his thing alone. With the help of Sue and some freelancers. They've released something like 6 good books.

How large is Necromancer Games? Clark and Bill, and a couple more, and some freelancers. They've released 11 books as far as I know.

Sword&Sorcery? Atlas Games? And so on... and WotC still has Chris Perkins, Bruce Cordell, Dave Noonan, Andy Collins, Ed Stark, Rich Baker, Charles Ryan, Michele Carter, Gwen Kestrel, Kim Mohan and James Wyatt on the board. As well as mister Tweet, even though he's not doing design at the moment.

That's at least eleven people. Compared to other companies this is a huge R&D department. But compared to how big it's been, it seems small.

So, do I really have a point to make? I don't know, but IMO, a small and tightly knit creative department is probably better suited to produce good, solid, and consistent material, than a creative department made up of 30 or so odd people.

And WotC probably has at least something like 11000 people willing to work with them as freelancers, judging by the setting search result.

Ok, if I was head honcho, I would set things up like this:

WotC would keep a tight crew, one line editor/protector for each campaign setting and system (Greyhawk, FR, d20 Modern (I would consider dropping this lines though), Star Wars). Attach two designers/rules editors to each line editor, and create a central art/design department with one Art Director and a couple of good, solid in house artists. Farm everything else out to freelancers. These freelancers would not only be writers or designers, but proofreaders, playtesters, illustrators and whatnot, but the point is, use freelancers. And run a tight ship when it comes to creative direction. Settle for four major and four medium releases a year for core D&D, and two major and two medium releases for the other lines, and schedule a low but continuing level of web support for all product lines. (And then I'd hire Ryan Dancey to command the ship.)

I would leave the minor print releases and strange experiments (such as Nyambe, an excellent product, but a niche product if I ever saw one) to the d20 community.

This could, even should, tighten up quality control and make production cheaper. So, a smaller group might actually be the same as better games that cost less. Sounds good, eh?

And maybe, maybe, maybe, that's what WotC are doing? But I still can't figure out why Skip Williams had to go... maybe he failed the RPGA Dungeon Master test...? I know I did...

Of course, cutting the creative strength of a company might kill it as well. But it doesn't have to be that way, if the cards are played right. We'll just have to see.

M. (watching the LotR DVD as I'm writing this, and it rocks!)

 

[James Heard]

Okay, so being up late and curious I went to the Hasbro website to see what Hasbro was like in all it's enormity up close and personal. I noticed a few things that I thought would be interesting to everyone else that might be curious but not curious and struck by insomnia enough to go hunting down their curiosity:

1. Wizards of the Coast is always referred to by the things it makes: Pokemon and MTG. Except for in a small link in Games (that links to the Wizard's website), D&D might as well not be on their radar.

2. Not only are profits down, but they owe a billion dollars and change outstanding. At least I think that's what it said, but they don't teach us much about reading suit-speak in art school.

3. Profits are up because profits are down and they're selling off the properties that made them profit by re-aligning managers. That doesn't make much sense to me, but again - my business sense is mainly in "I wouldn't pay that much for this, but I'll surely try to sell it to you for that much".

4. I didn't know Avalon Hill was owned by Hasbro. I suppose thats why AH stopped making good wargames?

5. No contact information is possible with Hasbro on it's website that I could find. You can write them snail mail or you can phone them at office hours, but apparently they when they sold off their electronic games division they sold off anyone who could look at email?

6.There is no six, I just wanted to see if anyone was listening.

7. Most of the company newsletter thingee seemed to stress the declining profitabilities and volatilities of the toy market. Hasbro apparently lost money on Furby (after making a load), lost money on GI Joe (after making a load) and lost money on Pokemon (after..you get it). It reminds me of professional gamblers sort of, maybe thats the way the international toy market is though. I think if I were a multinational toy company I'd rather own Barbie though, if nothing else because my daughter really loves those things. Still. Amazing.

8. If all Wizards is in the minds of Hasbro execs is MtG and Pokemon (because they're faddish or still in the declines of a fad and that's what Hasbro really traffics it's properties on, not caring to play a steady hand when BIG MONEY can be had by just jumping around from slot to slot), then maybe soon they'll devalue WOTC enough that the property is buyable again by mismanagement. If they go, "All the real profit is in CCGs, lets strip D&D and maximize profits!" and then CCGs come out of their fads entirely - reducing profits then they'll be holding onto a company theoretically devoid of worth - the CCGs will be crap and the D&D will be crap and they'll be looking for a way to maximize their bottom line again like they were with their computer games division.

9. Eight was really just me making an observation, if they have anything like this on the Hasbro website they're probably shredding it as we speak.

10. Learn to sleep. It's really good, and good for you.

JMH

 

[Buttercup]

Re: Re: The Quandry

Try eating 'creative personal expression'.

I notice that among all of these passionate suggestions for how to save D&D from the corporations, there is little, if any, talk of how much money YOU'RE willing to pay to keep the creators fed, clothed, and in something resembling a house while they avoid having their souls sullied by concerns of profit.

Amen, brother. In fact, threads complaining about the high price of RPG books surface regularly, and are usually filled with strident, up-the-organization ranters. So here's what it comes down to: I don't want to pay reasonable prices for products, but I don't want any staff to be fired because costs can't be covered.

I also have to wonder what percentage of those on this thread bemoaning corporate greed have files on their hard drives from warez groups or P2P programs...

Again I say amen. Why is it so hard to understand that products created by human beings have to be paid for, if you want to see similar products in future? And when did it start being ok to steal whatever intellectual property you want, just because you can?

 

[Buttercup]

Re: Re: There's a bigger picture here, IMHO...

All sorts of eminently sensible things that will not make a whit of difference.

Let's give up now, Furn. It's hopeless.

 

[Henry]

Well, make that intern sweat and have the remaining SRD sections (draft already provided by Ryan Dancey) finalized yesterday. And that includes the Vitality/Wound health system.

Spoken like a true WotC CEO.

Anthony - thanks for the responses. I know this is probably tough for you - I don't doubt you've got friends and acquaintences in the last layoff and, as a co-worker if nothing else, it is damned tough to watch someone you know walk out that front door and not return.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Re: Re: Re: There's a bigger picture here, IMHO...

Let's give up now, Furn. It's hopeless.

*chuckle* You are correct, as always, but I am so enamored with hearing myself speak that I can not stop it.

FD

 

[Breakdaddy]

Re: Re: Re: The Quandry

Amen, brother. In fact, threads complaining about the high price of RPG books surface regularly, and are usually filled with strident, up-the-organization ranters. So here's what it comes down to: I don't want to pay reasonable prices for products, but I don't want any staff to be fired because costs can't be covered.



Again I say amen. Why is it so hard to understand that products created by human beings have to be paid for, if you want to see similar products in future? And when did it start being ok to steal whatever intellectual property you want, just because you can?

Intellectual property theft, is that like what an Illithid does to a human slave???
Actually, I find IP theft fun!