More lower level critters or fewer equal level

[SpiderMonkey]

Hi, all!

After playing and loving the Castle Ravenloft board game, I've decided to dust off my 4e books once more. I have a group of three players (wife, wife's sister, brother-in-law).

Because we have fewer than 5 players, the question I have is should we play modules as-is at a lower level or modify the encounters in level appropriate modules to bring them in line with the smaller party.

We've dusted off their 7th level characters from a year or so ago. They have wildly bloated ability scores, so they're pretty beefy.

The group consists of a human rageblood (?) barbarian, a dragonborn inspiring warlord, and a half-elf starlock.

I figure the lower-level encounters are going to feature more critters which might threaten to overwhelm the warlock, but on the other hand, the barbarian seems to do well against crowds. We only played really casually prior to dropping it, so I'm speaking as a veritable newb here.

Thanks in advance!

 

[The Human Target]

Hi, all!

After playing and loving the Castle Ravenloft board game, I've decided to dust off my 4e books once more. I have a group of three players (wife, wife's sister, brother-in-law).

Because we have fewer than 5 players, the question I have is should we play modules as-is at a lower level or modify the encounters in level appropriate modules to bring them in line with the smaller party.

We've dusted off their 7th level characters from a year or so ago. They have wildly bloated ability scores, so they're pretty beefy.

The group consists of a human rageblood (?) barbarian, a dragonborn inspiring warlord, and a half-elf starlock.

I figure the lower-level encounters are going to feature more critters which might threaten to overwhelm the warlock, but on the other hand, the barbarian seems to do well against crowds. We only played really casually prior to dropping it, so I'm speaking as a veritable newb here.

Thanks in advance!

I think it really depends on the party and the players.

I think less equal level monsters with a few more minions than usual is the first option you should try at least.

 

[the Jester]

I think it's going to be a lot more fun to rejigger level-appropriate encounters.

But instead of just reducing the number of bad guys, I'd shake it up with lots of minions. For instance, say your party is second level. Your standard xp budget is 375 xp (three 2nd level monsters). Out of five encounters, I might do:

• An encounter with three 2nd level monsters (375 xp)
• An encounter with two 3rd level monsters and three 1st level minions (375 xp)
• An encounter with a 1st level elite, a 2nd level standard and two 1st level minions (375 xp)
• An encounter with 12 2nd level minions (375 xp)
• An encounter with two 1st level elites (400 xp)

Something like that.

 

[fba827]

if you have lower level enemies, you'll have issues where (depending on how much lower) the enemies will have a hard time hitting the PCs (due to lower attack bonus) and the PCs will hardly ever miss (due to lower defenses for the enemies).

So I'm inclined to say few same-ish level enemies (i.e. don't go more than a level lower and use minions liberally when you need more physical bodies to swarm the party).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The more you use lower level enemies the more often the party will hit. They will also have to chew through more total hit points of enemies though, so it becomes more of a hit often but you need to make a good number of hits to win. Of course each hit is also more likely to do some kind of visible damage since each opponent will be easier to kill.

The enemy OTOH GENERALLY becomes tougher offensively when more numerous. Yes, deleveling by 3 levels means 15% less hits, but it also means 2x more SWINGS, admittedly for slightly less damage in general. It also means crowd control becomes more valuable vs focused lockdown ability. The Starlock for instance probably likes fewer tougher enemies, but a wizard would probably rather face a horde of (ideally) minions.

I think the key is to experiment and mix it up. Personally I have found it more interesting in general to make fights a little bigger and use individually weaker opponents as a rule. Just remember when you do that you want to make sure your battlefields don't get too crowded. If you're updating a module though to a smaller XP budget that won't be a problem, you'll probably always have at most the same number of creatures as before.

 

[Jhaelen]

I'd either use fewer creatures of a roughly equal level (+/- 2) or add minions of a roughly equal levels. Using a lot of low level creatures will probably result in a boring slugfest.

 

[jbear]

I'd just introduce a companion character to the party. In the DMG2 there are rules to create companion characters, but more or less all you have to do is choose a monster of the same level, refluff the powers and the creature description to make it fit with something you are happy with and voila. Done.

Chose a creature that fulfills a role that you think is lacking. From the party make up I'd say you'd want a defender, probably a fighter-type will be the most simple and straight forward. Each player can take turns opertaing the Companion.

Now the party consists of 4 PCs, if they are characters with exceptinal stats you can probably run most modules as is. Most older modules will have monsters with low damage out put, so 4 decent PCs should manage them fine.

Or each player could have a Grey Wolf Animal Companion 1 or 2 levels lower than themselves (lvl 5 or 6). They could go on the initiative count straight after them rather than worrying about seperate initiateive scores. Wolves basically just bite and do more damage if the creature is prone. A no brainer to operate in combat really. Now there are 6 in the group. You can throw anything you like at them now.

Anyway, it's another option to consider.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'd either use fewer creatures of a roughly equal level (+/- 2) or add minions of a roughly equal levels. Using a lot of low level creatures will probably result in a boring slugfest.

Eh, try it. My experience is it can make fun dynamic battles. This is especially true for players that are new or just not super tactical genius optimizer types. The players will all be able to hit a lot (always a crowd pleaser) and each monster will go down quick, so they get some instant gratification. Where I see fights getting boring is when you have an enemy that has tough defenses and a hill of hit points so the players miss regularly and when they do hit the result is just "OK, he's gone from 150 hit points to 100 hit points" which isn't a really noticeable thing right away. Obviously a good battlefield with interesting terrain and goals and whatnot can make this a fun worthwhile fight but the group of lower level monsters is IMHO the easier kind of fight to tweak.

 

[Sunseeker]

IMO, give them two seperate encounters, one of more lower levels, and one of fewer at or higher levels.

My suspicion is that they'll have more trouble with fewer lower levels, simply because having fewer targets for your daily/encounters, makes your daily/encounters all that more powerful.

 

[Shin Okada]

If I were you, I will do either

1) Add a Companion Character (DMG2), and play an adventure one level lower.
or
2) Add 2 Companion Characters and play an adventure of appropriate level.

That way, you don't need to adjust encounter. And that is much easier.

Adding more monsters for a 6+ men party is quite easy. But adjusting an existing encounter for a smaller party tend not to work well. Especially when an encounter is composed of fewer than 5 monsters.

Also, 3-men party tend to be too fragile and lacking versatility to confront various challenges, both in combat and outside combat.