More powerful spells at first level?

[RangerWickett]

Anti-Entrance Stone
This magic item prevents the use of commonly available spells to secure entrance to an area that you want guarded. It protects a small room and as it prevents a spell, it sets off an alarm to indicate an intrusion attempt.
Targeted Dispel Magic versus Move Space, Scry, Move Earth (1 MP each). The creator has 8 ranks in Dispel Magic. (SR 19 or +9 Scry DC)
Contingent Create Sound (5 MP)
Total MP 9 (8 + 1 for duration).
81,000 gp base value

You've overcosted a bit, I think.

You want an item that is Dispel Magic 3/Create Sound 1/Gen 3. You get targeted antimagic (Move Space, Scry, Move Earth) for 3 MP, an alarm as loud as shouting men for 1 MP, contingency for 1 MP, a 10-ft. radius for 1 MP, and the minimum duration for 1 MP. That's an expensive version.

The cheap version is Dispel Magic 1/Gen 2, 9000 gp to ward a room against teleportation fairly well.

If you want to shell out the big bucks, for 400,000 gp you can get Dispel Magic 3/Create Sound 2/Gen 15. That gets you local area (800-ft. radius), a very loud contingent alarm, (if a mage with 23 ranks in Dispel Magic makes it) SR 33 for worrisome spells, and the discerning enhancement so the alarm only goes off in the right areas.

Of course, there's still always Transform Earth to just reshape the stone walls.

In the skills-based modern EOM I'm working on, I've limited a few really game-altering effects like teleportation to feats.

 

[astriemer]

You've overcosted a bit, I think.

You want an item that is Dispel Magic 3/Create Sound 1/Gen 3. You get targeted antimagic (Move Space, Scry, Move Earth) for 3 MP, an alarm as loud as shouting men for 1 MP, contingency for 1 MP, a 10-ft. radius for 1 MP, and the minimum duration for 1 MP. That's an expensive version.

The cheap version is Dispel Magic 1/Gen 2, 9000 gp to ward a room against teleportation fairly well.

If you want to shell out the big bucks, for 400,000 gp you can get Dispel Magic 3/Create Sound 2/Gen 15. That gets you local area (800-ft. radius), a very loud contingent alarm, (if a mage with 23 ranks in Dispel Magic makes it) SR 33 for worrisome spells, and the discerning enhancement so the alarm only goes off in the right areas.

Of course, there's still always Transform Earth to just reshape the stone walls.

In the skills-based modern EOM I'm working on, I've limited a few really game-altering effects like teleportation to feats.

I like the cheap version, though it just protects against teleportation, and d-minky was concerned with scry as well.

You're right that it probably would start to get cheaper to shell out the big bucks once you've got a log of areas that need protecting.

So the more paranoid builders will get Dispel Magic 4 and add Transform Earth (Did you mean Transform Earth? You're sample spell that lets you reshape stuff is Transform Ooze.)

The feats limit sounds very interesting, any previews coming?

 

[astriemer]

I'm thinking... teleporting into solid objects is bad, right? So, wouldn't most defensive positions have lots of strings descending from the ceiling? That way, someone teleporting in there would find himself teleporting into a lot of quite solid strings.

I would think that this wouldn't prevent the problem as the strings would move out of the way as they are functionally fluid in their environment. If you get too technical, there are solid bacteria (not only solid, but living too) floating all around and teleport wouldn't work ever.

'course you could always rule that the string theory would work how ever you wanted.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Wouldn't a better approach be to find be some way of patching the EoM rules so that first level wizards coudn't teleport the party into a fortress? For example, in 4CtF, the basic teleportation power required 8 hero points, so you had to be at least fifth level.

Just my 2 cp.

 

[osarusan]

I don't like the idea of limiting options too much like that... the point is to be as flexible as possible. But using antimagics and minor things to foil weak attempts by low level mages seems like a better way to go, IMHO.

 

[RangerWickett]

I think having powers like teleportation available at lower levels brings up issues of a more civic nature, beyond rules balance. While now that I look back I think that cantrip teleportation is probably a bad idea (especially since it can steal the rogue's "sneaking in" schtick), even if teleportation and flight are available at 5th level, that would be often enough that society would have to react to it.

Teleportation magic might be licensed or restricted, so that only government-authorized mages are allowed to teleport, and even then they're limited in where they can go. Anyone who breaks the rules is a criminal. Heck, raising the dead might be illegal for a variety of social or religious reasons.

Astriemer, I'm readjusting some of the rules after doing some playtests, and once things are getting polished up I'll put a preview or two of the Modern rules up. After EOM - Modern is out, I'll probably use some of the lessons from it to improve a rerelease of the core EOM later this year.

 

[osarusan]

RangerWicket, that brings up a really good point... there isn't much as far as rules go about the legality of magic. Sure, every system regulates Raise Dead, and making undead is always evil and illegal... but while every system mentions illegal magic and such, where are the rules that actually state laws about magic? I sure haven't seen any.

Perhaps there could be a brief section on that in the next EOM rerelease?

 

[Nyeshet]

Such rules would vary greatly from state to state. For instance, raising skeletons as guards - legal or illegal? I can easily see a case for each. Skeletons could be mindless bone constructs put to work doing menial tasks or tirelessly guarding important areas. They might also be viewed as desecration of a corpse.

Charm Person could be a major offense in some areas and viewed as a mostly harmless joke in others (as it makes you view another as a friend - it does not force you to act in a manner different from normal). I imagine its use in crimes would be viewed in much the same way as alcohol - in some areas. A region that has recently dealt with a powerful evil enchanter might have a different view on the matter.

Similarly some areas might see utility magic as positive, and all magic specifically made to harm others (most evocation) as negative - either suspitious or illegal. What about the use of Bull Strength before an official fight / dual? I imagine it would be viewed in some areas as similar to steroid use today, while others might see it as no worse than having the best equiptment money can buy.

Divinations might be poorly viewed in areas that have strong concerns about privacy (scry). Transmutations such as fabricate-style spells might be illegal in areas where local craftsmen are worried about mass production of simple items lowering their price on the market.

Face it, in most societies, much of magic would be viewed with suspition, if for no other reason than human(oid)s simply being human(oid)s. It is human nature to be suspitious of that which we do not understand. Even in areas where magic is common, I expect any local government mostly made of non-casters to have a multitude of laws regulating its use - at least within city / town / county limits.

Considering how varied such as this can be, I think you should make the laws on a case by case basis. A good guideline to consider: any potentially lethal spells (damaging spells), any spells that allow invasion of privacy (scry / thought detection), any spells that might circumvent "fair play" (in contests, battles, economics, politics, etc) would likely be regulated or illegal. Also included are any spells the local cultures &/or religions view negatively (such as raising zombies or perhaps even raising the dead). Most healing will likely be alright - unless you are using a low magic world and the local doctors' union objects to its use in minor (non-emergency) matters, of course.

 

[Thomas5251212]

It would be hard to define "laws" about magic without making a lot of assumptions about the society involved; after all, there were plenty of societies that didn't really have "laws" about spying on people; it was up to the person to take care of his own information security. And its easy to see a society that doesn't care how you trespassed into someone's land, just that you did (its a relatively modern concept to make law specific to methods of conducting an infraction, rather than just doing it (though not completely unheard of in the past).

So its not suprising there's no rules about this, as RW has generally tried to minimize rules that made campaign assumptions, other than some necessary cosmological ones.

 

[osarusan]

I agree with you Thomas, its too much to go laying out campaign-specific rules in these type of option books, but I don't think that means the question should be avoided alltogether... In fact, Nyeshet's few paragraphs would fit nicely as a sidebar in a book like this... just to give DMs an idea to build upon, maybe a few sample rules from sample kingdoms, or something like that.

Afterall, if there are specific magical traditions being presented in the books, we could at least see some laws, or guidelines for laws, that might fit those magical traditions.