Or, you could go Genasi Ranger, build Strength and Int, backstory from Thay (I have a group of Freedom Fighters in mind I am starting to build a campaign for) and essentially dump Con AND Dex and keep the light armor while also getting a +1 to Will via 12 Wisdom. The number of surges will be low, as will Initiative Mod, but very workable. I have one built already for LFR games like that I may try next.
Most overpowered / underpowered ?
- Thread starter Silverwave
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Or, you could go Genasi Ranger, build Strength and Int, backstory from Thay (I have a group of Freedom Fighters in mind I am starting to build a campaign for) and essentially dump Con AND Dex and keep the light armor while also getting a +1 to Will via 12 Wisdom. The number of surges will be low, as will Initiative Mod, but very workable. I have one built already for LFR games like that I may try next.
You could try this. Instead of giving the TWF ranger toughness for free, give him chain mail prof instead. Melee Rangers can use the heavy armor they really need, and archer rangers don't have even more incentive to take the TWF route.
Prestidigitalis
First Post
While the question of power (over or under) is generally considered only in the context of combat, I'd like to point out that an Archer Ranger is admirably stat-qualified to be a super scout and general skill master.
With high Dex and Wis, training in Nature, Perception, Stealth, Athletics and Acrobatics, a Ranger can stealthily close on the enemy in most any terrain, study their composition and formation, and retreat with this valuable information. If also an Elf and possessed of a few feats like Fast Runner and Fleet Footed (names?), the Ranger stands a very good chance of escaping, even if spotted, by running like hell.
Also note that as the Archer Ranger needs only a few feats to improve damage, and none at all to improve AC, there are plenty of feat slots available to multiclass and to train in additional skills.
Add another character to the party with good Cha skills and bonuses, and you can meet all the most common skill challenges.
So while it is certainly possible that an Archer Ranger is not overpowered per se, I would seriously consider including one in my party for the sake of all of the extra-combat utility.
With high Dex and Wis, training in Nature, Perception, Stealth, Athletics and Acrobatics, a Ranger can stealthily close on the enemy in most any terrain, study their composition and formation, and retreat with this valuable information. If also an Elf and possessed of a few feats like Fast Runner and Fleet Footed (names?), the Ranger stands a very good chance of escaping, even if spotted, by running like hell.
Also note that as the Archer Ranger needs only a few feats to improve damage, and none at all to improve AC, there are plenty of feat slots available to multiclass and to train in additional skills.
Add another character to the party with good Cha skills and bonuses, and you can meet all the most common skill challenges.
So while it is certainly possible that an Archer Ranger is not overpowered per se, I would seriously consider including one in my party for the sake of all of the extra-combat utility.
tleilaxu
First Post
the elephant in the room is the wizard class. they had to put it in the PHB, but i think the designers realize that it is not one of their better realizations.
In addition to more powers on par with the new controllers, I'd like to see Wizards get Rituals -and- Alchemy as free feats, and have a significant advantage in these two areas relative to all other classes. I don't see it being a power issue as much as a coolness issues, as rituals and alchemy essentially cover the same role mechanically.
In addition to more powers on par with the new controllers, I'd like to see Wizards get Rituals -and- Alchemy as free feats, and have a significant advantage in these two areas relative to all other classes. I don't see it being a power issue as much as a coolness issues, as rituals and alchemy essentially cover the same role mechanically.
I think my biggest problems with rogues right now is they have no area effect attacks.
Fighters have em, Rangers have a lot of multishot powers that can simulate the effects, and warlocks have a few choice ones. I believe all rogues have is one daily, and now I think one encounter in MP.
Your damage doesn't seem that good when your friend are knocking down 3-4 guys a round with different things.
The other thing about rogues is that don't have any dailies that say "for this whole fight, I am X".
When a fighter uses rain of steel, they become a striker. When a wizard uses Bigby's ice hand, he becomes a striker (and a stronger controller). When a cleric uses beacon of hope, he becomes an even more powerful leader.
Rogues don't have any of these "buff" type dailies that make them extra cool for a fight.
Fighters have em, Rangers have a lot of multishot powers that can simulate the effects, and warlocks have a few choice ones. I believe all rogues have is one daily, and now I think one encounter in MP.
Your damage doesn't seem that good when your friend are knocking down 3-4 guys a round with different things.
The other thing about rogues is that don't have any dailies that say "for this whole fight, I am X".
When a fighter uses rain of steel, they become a striker. When a wizard uses Bigby's ice hand, he becomes a striker (and a stronger controller). When a cleric uses beacon of hope, he becomes an even more powerful leader.
Rogues don't have any of these "buff" type dailies that make them extra cool for a fight.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Hmm ... I think you may be on to something.
Though personally, I prefer classes and/or races whose raw numbers are higher, and don't need a daily to get them up to speed.
And since rogues can have functional 20/16 builds (halflings and drow, in particular) take backstabber, slaying action, and sneak in the attack, they can potentially deal 2x more times of sneak damage in a round on top of their 19.5 average (with an at-will, which doesn't count enhancement).
Also, there's nothing stopping you from MCing for those cool dailies if you really want them.
Heck, I've seen a rogue that MC'ed fighter to get unyielding avalanche, though dual wielding dagger/waraxe (which he wasn't proficient with) was probably over the top.
Though personally, I prefer classes and/or races whose raw numbers are higher, and don't need a daily to get them up to speed.
And since rogues can have functional 20/16 builds (halflings and drow, in particular) take backstabber, slaying action, and sneak in the attack, they can potentially deal 2x more times of sneak damage in a round on top of their 19.5 average (with an at-will, which doesn't count enhancement).
Also, there's nothing stopping you from MCing for those cool dailies if you really want them.
Heck, I've seen a rogue that MC'ed fighter to get unyielding avalanche, though dual wielding dagger/waraxe (which he wasn't proficient with) was probably over the top.
I agree with the initial post about rogues.
I have been playing a game with a halfling rogue, dragonborn paladin, dwarven fighter & my (recently deceased) elven ranger. (We were all Level 4 at time of writing)
The rogue seems incredibly overpowered.
His base armor class is only 1 lower than the paladins (& his other defences aren't far off) However, he has a bonus against opportunity attacks & anything that attacks him gets hit by a riposite strike most turns. He also has second chance to stop any crits.
His damage output & hit to miss ratio is far higher than my ranger's.
Here are his Riposite strike calculations:
Attack: Dex (7) + Combat advantage (2) = +11 vs AC
Hit: 1 [W] (1D6) + Dex (7) + Two Weapon Fighting (1) + Sneak attack (2D8) Max = 32
If the target tries to attack him before he can do it again, hit him first.
Attack: Str (4) + Combat advantage (2) = +6 vs AC
Hit: 1 [W] (1D6) + Strength (4) + Two Weapon Fighting (1) + Sneak attack (2D8) Max = 27
So... Two attacks that will probably hit, dealing a maximum of 59. Level 4. At-will.
(He almost always had combat advantage too, with a mix of his racial higher initiative thing & tumble letting him get wherever he needed to be to kill them best.
My ranger on the other hand.
His most damaging attack, Two Fanged Strike
Attack Both: Dex (7) + Prime Shot (1) = +8 Vs AC
Hit 1: 1[W] (1D10) + Dex (7) + Hunter's Quarry (1D8) Max = 25
Hit 2: 1[W] (1D10) + Dex (7) Max = 17
If (& only if) both attacks hit + Wis (5)
Total Maximum: 47 With attacks that are pretty likely to miss.
I don't understand how he is capable of being the best striker & the best defender simultaneously. It's not just that we are complete scrubs & he's power gaming. The rest of us have gone through everything & we can't seem to find a way to compete with that.
I have been playing a game with a halfling rogue, dragonborn paladin, dwarven fighter & my (recently deceased) elven ranger. (We were all Level 4 at time of writing)
The rogue seems incredibly overpowered.
His base armor class is only 1 lower than the paladins (& his other defences aren't far off) However, he has a bonus against opportunity attacks & anything that attacks him gets hit by a riposite strike most turns. He also has second chance to stop any crits.
His damage output & hit to miss ratio is far higher than my ranger's.
Here are his Riposite strike calculations:
Attack: Dex (7) + Combat advantage (2) = +11 vs AC
Hit: 1 [W] (1D6) + Dex (7) + Two Weapon Fighting (1) + Sneak attack (2D8) Max = 32
If the target tries to attack him before he can do it again, hit him first.
Attack: Str (4) + Combat advantage (2) = +6 vs AC
Hit: 1 [W] (1D6) + Strength (4) + Two Weapon Fighting (1) + Sneak attack (2D8) Max = 27
So... Two attacks that will probably hit, dealing a maximum of 59. Level 4. At-will.
(He almost always had combat advantage too, with a mix of his racial higher initiative thing & tumble letting him get wherever he needed to be to kill them best.
My ranger on the other hand.
His most damaging attack, Two Fanged Strike
Attack Both: Dex (7) + Prime Shot (1) = +8 Vs AC
Hit 1: 1[W] (1D10) + Dex (7) + Hunter's Quarry (1D8) Max = 25
Hit 2: 1[W] (1D10) + Dex (7) Max = 17
If (& only if) both attacks hit + Wis (5)
Total Maximum: 47 With attacks that are pretty likely to miss.
I don't understand how he is capable of being the best striker & the best defender simultaneously. It's not just that we are complete scrubs & he's power gaming. The rest of us have gone through everything & we can't seem to find a way to compete with that.
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