D&D 5E Most User-Friendly VTT? (Dice Games In The Time of Covid)

[Mistwell]

Interesting. Thanks for the replies. If roll20 is the simplest thing out there...I probably just am not someone who is gonna want to use a vtt.

I don’t want to watch a tutorial to figure out how to let players move an asset

They click on it and hold the click, and move it where they want to move it, and then stop clicking. Exactly what you'd expect.

, or to have a torch throw out the correct area of light. I

You click on it, and it will open a window. Where it says 'Aura' you put the radius you want. You can even choose the color of the light, and whether it's round or square.

This stuff is super simple. That's why it's the most popular platform.

 

[Prakriti]

They click on it and hold the click, and move it where they want to move it, and then stop clicking. Exactly what you'd expect.

But first you have to give them permission to move it. And if it's a token that represents their character, then you probably want to link that token to their character sheet. And unless you want to go through those steps on each map, then you also want to associate their character sheet with that token (which is not the same as linking a token to their character sheet). All of this takes time to do and time to learn. And it's not exactly intuitive.

 

[Mistwell]

But first you have to give them permission to move it. And if it's a token that represents their character, then you probably want to link that token to their character sheet. And unless you want to go through those steps on each map, then you also want to associate their character sheet with that token (which is not the same as linking a token to their character sheet). All of this takes time to do and time to learn. And it's not exactly intuitive.

Sure but you don't need a character sheet. They have a character sheet at home. You don't even need the dice roller. We have one player who just rolls his own dice and tells us what he gets - just like you do at a table. Unless you have a trust issue with your players, that should be fine. It's a tool to play your game as quickly as you can get it going - you don't need the bells and whistles.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They click on it and hold the click, and move it where they want to move it, and then stop clicking. Exactly what you'd expect.



You click on it, and it will open a window. Where it says 'Aura' you put the radius you want. You can even choose the color of the light, and whether it's round or square.

This stuff is super simple. That's why it's the most popular platform.

You have to first set those things up. The DM has to learn how to give control of an asset to the player.

I’m also not here to argue about any of this. Save for someone else.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In the meantime, you might want to get started with the VTTs that exist now. Wishing for perfect isn't going to allow you to get a game together this weekend.

Or, just use chat like we have been doing.

Because so far, it doesn’t seem like the vtt options are actually any better than that.

But we will keep messing with them anyway, see if we find one that clicks for us and has enough pre-set-up assets that we don’t have to mess around whatever process to make line of sight work on a building every time.

 

[Mistwell]

You have to first set those things up. The DM has to learn how to give control of an asset to the player.

I’m also not here to argue about any of this. Save for someone else.

Giving control of an asset is super easy too though. It's not like some complex "setup".

Nobody is arguing with you, I am letting people know what the level of complexity is. If you don't like that level of complexity, that's fine. But it looked to me like people could accidentally get the wrong impression of the complexity from your post.

 

[Len]

I found this tutorial that looks useful for setting up a Roll20 campaign: Roll20 Crash Course - Roll20 Wiki (I haven't run through this myself because I'm not the GM of our current campaign.)

Giving control of an asset is super easy too though. It's not like some complex "setup".

It may seem super easy to you, but I can tell you that some new users find it bewildering and just don't know where to start. I find it confusing and I've heard that from other people too. It's fine to say that you only have to do a few simple things to get started, but it can be really hard to figure out what those simple things are.

 

[Mistwell]

I found this tutorial that looks useful for setting up a Roll20 campaign: Roll20 Crash Course - Roll20 Wiki (I haven't run through this myself because I'm not the GM of our current campaign.)



It may seem super easy to you, but I can tell you that some new users find it bewildering and just don't know where to start. I find it confusing and I've heard that from other people too. It's fine to say that you only have to do a few simple things to get started, but it can be really hard to figure out what those simple things are.

You click it. That brings up a display with an ordinary gear icon. You click the gear icon. That brings up the window of controls for that icon (there are not many, it's not like it's a full screen of stuff). Where is says "controlled by" you select the player who controls it. You're done.

There are complex things in Roll20. Choosing who can move an object isn't one of them.

 

[Len]

There are complex things in Roll20. Choosing who can move an object isn't one of them.

You seem to be completely missing my point. It's not that some particular thing is simple, it's that nothing is simple when you're faced with a screen full of controls and a hundred pages of inscrutable documentation.

 

[Mistwell]

You seem to be completely missing my point. It's not that some particular thing is simple, it's that nothing is simple when you're faced with a screen full of controls and a hundred pages of inscrutable documentation.

I am not missing the point. We've all learned how to do something new with software.

Clicking on it pops up a gear icon - we all recognize a gear icon as a standard "settings" type indicator.

Clicking on that gear asks you who you want to control that thing.

You don't need documentation to figure that thing out. My 9 year old daughter could probably figure that thing out in a few minutes.

Yes, there are complex things in Roll20. But please, stop telling people one of the complex things is how to grant control to an object for others to move. It is one of the things that's easy to do in Roll20. Not everything is easy, but that one really is. Nobody needs 100s of pages of inscrutable documentation to figure that particular thing out. It's not IKEA furniture directions or rocket science.

 

[Len]

You don't need documentation to figure that thing out. My 9 year old daughter could probably figure that thing out in a few minutes.

So then, is your point that the various people who have said they found it difficult to figure out Roll20 are just stupid?

Thank you for your contribution.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I am not missing the point. We've all learned how to do something new with software.

Clicking on it pops up a gear icon - we all recognize a gear icon as a standard "settings" type indicator.

Clicking on that gear asks you who you want to control that thing.

You don't need documentation to figure that thing out. My 9 year old daughter could probably figure that thing out in a few minutes.

Yes, there are complex things in Roll20. But please, stop telling people one of the complex things is how to grant control to an object for others to move. It is one of the things that's easy to do in Roll20. Not everything is easy, but that one really is. Nobody needs 100s of pages of inscrutable documentation to figure that particular thing out. It's not IKEA furniture directions or rocket science.

YOu need to stop being defensive about a computer program, Mist, and listen to people.

Roll20 isn't simple, or user friendly. It doesn't matter that you find it simple and easy, others don't.

 

[Eric V]

Have you considered Maptool?

 

[Mistwell]

So then, is your point that the various people who have said they found it difficult to figure out Roll20 are just stupid?

Thank you for your contribution.

My point, which I've repeated many times and in different ways, is THAT PARTICULAR FEATURE IS NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT. People have been saying they have some problems with Roll20 in general, not that particular feature.

You are welcome for my contribution.

 

[Mistwell]

YOu need to stop being defensive about a computer program, Mist, and listen to people.

Roll20 isn't simple, or user friendly. It doesn't matter that you find it simple and easy, others don't.

Non-responsive. I am talking about a particular feature, and you are talking as a generalization. Neither of us speak for others, so don't tell me you speak for "people" and that "people" find Roll20 in general is difficult. A few people in this thread had issues, and I mentioned one feature that was brought up is simple. Some others are more complex.

It's far and away the most popular VTT out there with thousands and thousands of people using it, so please stop speaking for everyone. And in particular don't tell people that particular feature is hard without being specific about what is hard about it.

 

[Quickleaf]

So, my group obviously isn't going to not play dnd. None of us really want to train a new tool proficiency just to play on roll20. Fantasy Grounds is expensive. Found one that looks slick but is kinda buggy called Astral. Apparently there are several others.

The question is, are literally any of them actually user-friendly? I remember using the beta 4e vtt and really liking it even in unfinished state. I didn't have to master a new skill to use it, it just worked, IIRC.

Anything around that is just easy to sit down and use? I'm fine with less features or whatever, I just want the thing to work without a steep learning curve. Video-chat is a plus, but we can do without it.

I'm a Roll20 veteran, and I still find that stuff to be overly time-consuming. Correctly aligning maps and creating tokens is pure drudgery.

I messed around with Roll20 for maybe 20-30 sessions, learning some of the API script, and my experience matches Prakriti's. My usual prep for face-to-face games is 1 hour prep to 1 hour play time, but when I was preparing Roll20 games, it jumped up to 3+ hours prep to 1 hour play time. That just wasn't sustainable for me & the drudgery ended up sucking out my enjoyment from DMing.

I've been messing around with Astral recently, trying to learn it, but couldn't even align my map, and ended up encountering a bug (which I reported) just 1-2 hours into using Astral. While I see the promise and I like the spirit of the people involved, it doesn't seem to quite be ready for regular use yet.

Recently I've tumbled to another possibility, which I'm still experimenting with:

A Discord server for voice/video chat, with the Avrae dice bot, and with the Beyond20 chrome extension to allow access to D&D Beyond character sheets and monsters in Discord. And then GoogleDrawings with the EPIC Isometric dungeon art assets from Alex Drummond (patreon link & drivethrurpg link). There's drawbacks to this approach however – GoogleDrawings does not have a fog of war & the way initiative count works in Avrae-enabled Discord is just goofy (there's no constantly visible initiative; you need to enter the !init list command to see initiative). However as far as ease of use, it's a pretty simple setup, and I can make maps in GoogleDrawins using Alex's assets pretty fast. No need to assign control of tokens to certain players because in GoogleDrawings the default is that everyone can move everything. It's not a perfect solution by any means. The Avrae dice commands take a bit of getting used to, for starters. But I feel like it's lower overhead than the two VTTs I've tried so far.

Honestly, I am still searching for an approach that hits that "sweet spot" of feeling like being around a table and socializing (i.e. being able to see everyone's faces clearly and not as tiny boxes just on the bottom of the screen), and balancing that with map & tokens when needed (but not making those the centerpiece of the game all the time). Will keep experimenting and exploring, but beginning to think that any online play solution is going to involve quite a bit of compromise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm a Roll20 veteran, and I still find that stuff to be overly time-consuming. Correctly aligning maps and creating tokens is pure drudgery.

Absolutely.

I found FG to be very intuitive and Roll20 to be incomprehensible. Others are the other way.

But look, if you don't want to spend money (and don't want to get a refund from FG within 30 days), then just use Discord with a web camera. It's not ideal but it is as simple and user-friendly as it gets. I've done it. Just hand your camera from a light and point it at your dry-erase mat. Everything else is just like around the table. People talk, roll dice and keep track of their own character sheets.

Easy Peasy, not fancy, and not efficient. But no learning curve and no cost unless you need to buy a $10 camera.

yeah this is what we may end up doing.

Non-responsive. I am talking about a particular feature, and you are talking as a generalization. Neither of us speak for others, so don't tell me you speak for "people" and that "people" find Roll20 in general is difficult. A few people in this thread had issues, and I mentioned one feature that was brought up is simple. Some others are more complex.

It's far and away the most popular VTT out there with thousands and thousands of people using it, so please stop speaking for everyone. And in particular don't tell people that particular feature is hard without being specific about what is hard about it.

Seriously, stop being defensive about a software program. It’s weird and doesn’t contribute anything to the thread.

Roll20 is complex and unintuitive. You find it easy, good for you. Stop denying other people’s expereinces

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Anyway.

Anyone know if you pay for roll20 stuff, can you get to a point where the features are all set up for you and you can just play? Or is there another program where that is the case?

For instance, if I pay a sub, and buy a module or asset pack, can I just lay down a building and the lighting and FoW just works?

 

[LordEntrails]

Anyway.

Anyone know if you pay for roll20 stuff, can you get to a point where the features are all set up for you and you can just play? Or is there another program where that is the case?

For instance, if I pay a sub, and buy a module or asset pack, can I just lay down a building and the lighting and FoW just works?

both FG and Roll20 do this with purchased modules.

It's not a "building" you typically lay down, it's an encounter map. In FG this might start with a map of a dungeon (say LMOP, Wave Echo Cavern), that map has pins on it to all the rooms/locations. When the player approach that you click the pin. It opens up a story entry that has read aloud text, DM info, an encounter that has all the NPCs that when you activate it puts the NPCs on the combat tracker and on the map so they encounter/battle is ready to go. Then their is a link to supporting info, and to the treasure parcel. Maybe to any traps etc.

You could build a module of preset random locations, like buildings, that you would then just share that map with the players and it would be ready to go.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

both FG and Roll20 do this with purchased modules.

It's not a "building" you typically lay down, it's an encounter map. In FG this might start with a map of a dungeon (say LMOP, Wave Echo Cavern), that map has pins on it to all the rooms/locations. When the player approach that you click the pin. It opens up a story entry that has read aloud text, DM info, an encounter that has all the NPCs that when you activate it puts the NPCs on the combat tracker and on the map so they encounter/battle is ready to go. Then their is a link to supporting info, and to the treasure parcel. Maybe to any traps etc.

You could build a module of preset random locations, like buildings, that you would then just share that map with the players and it would be ready to go.

And the map already has all the dynamic lighting type stuff worked out? The building example is a feature I really want because fairly blank maps (a grassy field, or cobblestone streets with undefined buildings, etc) with assents that can be set into place and just work, would make actually constructing environments very user friendly while still allowing decent depth.

If that’s an unreasonable standard, it may just be that I’m best off not using a vtt as a DM.