Most versatile single class

[Nifft]

IMHO:
1) Druid
2) Bard
3) Psion
4) Wizard

-- N

 

[two]

Just for the record, I think Felix's stance absurd.

Sadly, I can't call it an "argument," because Felix hasn't made one. It is, rather, a statement of deep affection.

What is abundantly obvious is that Felix loves rogues, loves doing roguey things, and enjoys anything that contains a streak of rogueishness.

Which is great, as long as Felix's GM isn't tired of him playing rogues.

It's nice to see somebody enthusiastic about something, for once. There's a lot of negativity in the air around here (note to self: travel to Marin soon, sit in a drumming circle, partake of herbal medications, and be at one with the great spirit above). Sadly, given the demands of a hospital ward, weekends spent filming underwater movies, and juggling three world-class girlfriends (each quite ignorant of the other), Marin is, alas, little more than a dream. As is, I might add, Felix's ... no. I won't go there.

Game on, brother, reach for the stars, and may the alleyways always be dark; may your enemies always be flanked; and let there always be cover, or at least concealment, when it is most needed.

 

[Malin Genie]

First, second and third choices, bard. Fourth choice, probably cleric.

Bards have:

Good spell selection, including

Movement spells (dimension door, shadow walk)
Information-gathering spells (clairvoyance/audience, scry, legend lore greater scry)
Infiltration (invisibility, silence, sculpt sound, greater invisibility)
Misdirection (the image spells, veil)
Communication (comprehend languages, tongues)
Healing

as well as a range of 'save-or-pretty-much-take-you-out-of-the-combat' spells, starting with glitterdust and confusion.... and for the odd spell which isn't accessible to bards that might be handy to have (restoration, commune, plane shift, discern location etc,) they can UMD a scroll!

Excellent skill selection, including

Social skills (Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff, Gather Information, K(N&R))
Knowledge skills
Infiltration/scouting skills (Hide, Move Silently, Listen)

Bardic Knowledge ('nuff said)

Mediocre combat skills - a little better using songs and spells to buff - but having said that, no class other than fighter/ranger/paladin is likely to be able to take on directly in combat (rather than via spells,) opponents of comparable CR. Possibly a wildshaped druid, but I haven't had enough experience with them to know. Losing armour, weapons, and other equipment - and the low AC - seem to me to be big disadvantages.

What other class can Gather Information to find out what's going on in the first place, use Diplomacy, Sense Motive and possibly Bluff to help find out what sort of people she's dealing with and whether there are hidden agendas, magically scout out the target area and use Bardic and/or mundane knowledge to go in with more information than any other class and get past any left over hazards by movement spells, misdirection spells or stealth skills; confuse, enthrall, suggest, charm, charm or bluff your way past enemies whom you don't avoid, and at a last resort still have some combat spells, fighting ability and healing for afterward?

 

[Marshall]

Just for the record, I think Felix's stance absurd.

Not really. He does have a point that you can make a the ROG class into the largest variety of different characters. From Face to Brute and everything in between, tho spellcaster requires a mid level plus PC to pull off.
But once you decide to make a Face ROG or Brute ROG you are just a Face ROG or....

OTOH, Every Druid has the versatilty to be, at least, a decent Face/Brute/Blaster/Healer/Scout.

 

[Marshall]

First, second and third choices, bard. Fourth choice, probably cleric.

IMO, any class with a "Spells Known" table is automatically disqualified in the "Versatility" category.

That goes doubly so for the Battle SOR.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think perhaps the disagreement here is simple. I think that given any situation, (with the exception of toe-to-toe melee hacking, but sometimes even then) you can use the rogue class to build a PC that will handle the problem. I do not think that any individual rogue character is going to be able to handle every problem thrown at him as well as other classes. Solo playing was mentioned earlier... there are some jobs that individual rogues just have to say no to.

In other words, the Rogue is not genuinely versatile. But you really, really like them so will insist they are. The fact you do not care about the obvious gaping holes in the Rogues suite of abilities because you like skills is supposed to persuade us that the holes do not matter.

 

[Kelleris]

Good grief, people, Felix just interpreted "versatile" differently than you did. His point was that given a certain shallenge, a rogue can be built to handle it, which is true to an extent that is at least comparable with the druid. Ergo, versatile class, not-necessarily-versatile character. Now druids, because they are ridiculous, are probably just as good as rogues, or slightly behind, using this rubric. But you could certainly make a case for the rogue as most versatile class (again, not character).

I still vote for bards, though.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

In other words, the Rogue is not genuinely versatile. But you really, really like them so will insist they are. The fact you do not care about the obvious gaping holes in the Rogues suite of abilities because you like skills is supposed to persuade us that the holes do not matter.

In other words, you can't be bothered to quantify your opinion, so rather than participate in general discussion you'll ridicule someone else who did back up their opinion, then use hyperbole to cover the complete lack of substance in your post.

 

[Thanee]

At least you'd be specific if you did that.

Being specific means to lower the number of options.

I think perhaps the disagreement here is simple. I think that given any situation, (with the exception of toe-to-toe melee hacking, but sometimes even then) you can use the rogue class to build a PC that will handle the problem.

That's certainly possible, as with every other class (tho maybe not with the same level of finesse ).

But I don't think, that this is what the question is about.

Perhaps you all are arguing the side that any druid PC is going to be able to apply himself to any situation and come away well? If that is the topic, then you are correct.

Yeah, I think that is the topic.

Put it this way, the only differences between one PC of a class and another PC of the same class are Skills and Feats (with an exception for the arcane caster's choice of spells).

Now, spell selection (even for divine casters) is something not to be neglected. Spellcasting is by far the most powerful and versatile ability in the game.

Make sense?

Somewhat (as in I understand your point, but think you are missing something there).

If it means "what class can bring everything to the table", then I think the rogue takes it.

Hmm... I think that many of the skills can be simulated (often in a highly superior way) with spells (especially arcane spells, of course).

Some are not so easy, mostly social skills (enchantments are trickier to use) and trapfinding, where the rogue is a clear winner.

Fighting Rogue (it bloody well is possible)

You will have to multiclass to achieve decent results, however.

"Casting" Rogue.

I guess that can easily be merged into the Face Rogue, it's just one skill, really, after all.

And Thanee, you underestimate yourself if you think you need spell lists to post overly-long posts. I don't need 'em!

LOL

Ok, you win!

Bye
Thanee

 

[green slime]

Just for the record, I found Felix's "stance" to be most interesting, refreshing line of thought in this otherwise dismissal thread.