Mounted combat, ranged full attack and draw a weapon ?

[Alpha Polaris]

One of our players is trying to pull a fast one on our GM (or so I think), so I'd like to have your opinion. Combining the rules for mounted combat,

You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally

and the rule about drawing a weapon,

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move.

he states that he can make a full attack with half-spears while moving, since full attacks are allowed while the mount moves, and drawing a weapon is a free action if combined with a regular move. I argued that "this ain't no regular move, kid", but what do you think ?

 

[Pinotage]

Is that character performing a move action? No. So he can't draw the weapon. Only a single attack if he wants to draw the weapon and throw the half spear. Does the fact that you mention half spear indicate you're still playing 3e, not 3.5e? In any event, you can normally only throw one weapon per round unless you have the quick draw feats, so even if the spear was drawn, he'd not be able to throw it and another without the quick draw feat. Note also that there are penalties for using ranged weapons from a mount - -4 or -8 depending on how the mount is moving.

Pinotage

 

[Alpha Polaris]

Does the fact that you mention half spear indicate you're still playing 3e, not 3.5e?

No, just that "shortspear" has been translated into french, and when I translate it back, it gives..."halfspear", sorry for the confusion.

In any event, you can normally only throw one weapon per round unless you have the quick draw feats, so even if the spear was drawn, he'd not be able to throw it and another without the quick draw feat.

I think you are right when stating he's not taking a move action, so should not be allowed to draw a weapon as a free action for having +1 bab, however if he were, it would be just the same as having quickdraw (since the feat just allows you to draw a weapon as a free action). So the whole point is making sure that his mount moving is not considered "a regular move".

Note also that there are penalties for using ranged weapons from a mount - -4 or -8 depending on how the mount is moving.

For double move and running, if I recall correctly. I think there is no malus for a single move.

 

[Pinotage]

I think you are right when stating he's not taking a move action, so should not be allowed to draw a weapon as a free action for having +1 bab, however if he were, it would be just the same as having quickdraw (since the feat just allows you to draw a weapon as a free action). So the whole point is making sure that his mount moving is not considered "a regular move".

Here's the only quote from the SRD I can find:

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally

To me its pretty obvious. The mount's moving, not the character, so he shouldn't be allowed to draw a weapon. The text above states that he can take move actions normally, indicating that his move actions are separate from the mount. What I was pointing out earlier is that it's not an issue unless he has the quick draw feat, giving that the only way you can make more than one attack with a thrown weapon is to have that feat. This is an entirely separate issue to drawing a weapon as a free action. Text below.

Quick Draw [General]
Prerequisite
Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit
You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.

A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

Normal
Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.

Special
A fighter may select Quick Draw as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Note the section in bold. Even if the DM allows the drawing of the weapon as a free action, he can still only use it once as a thrown weapon unless he had quick draw. If he has quick draw, then the whole issue is mute in any case.

Pinotage

 

[Artoomis]

...If he has quick draw, then the whole issue is mute in any case.

Pinotage

FYI: "Moot, " not "Mute."

You all are right. The key concept is that the reason he can make a full attack is that he is NOT moving. He is being moved.

Note that he (and his mount) will still draw AoO's from moving through threatened squares, as normal.

 

[Pinotage]

FYI: "Moot, " not "Mute."

Ah, well, you get that if English isn't your first language. I suppose there's something to be said for a 'silent' debate as well! Moo!

Pinotage

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

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[Artoomis]

Ah, well, you get that if English isn't your first language. I suppose there's something to be said for a 'silent' debate as well! Moo!

Pinotage

Yes, well, I thought that might be the case - so now you know the difference. It's a failry common error even for folks with English as a FIRST (or only) language

 

[Pinotage]

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[Pinotage]

Yes, well, I thought that might be the case - so now you know the difference. It's a failry common error even for folks with English as a FIRST (or only) language

MY english is that bad, huh?

Thanks in any case. Always nice to learn something you didn't know.


Pinotage