Movement & Combat in a Round

[taliesin15]

Some of the rules regarding combat & movement during a round seem kind of vague to me. My impression is that (for argument's sake, let's say a 1st level fighter with...Improved Initiative and Alertness) she can make a 5 foot step, then an attack, or an attack and a 5 foot step

the 5 foot step is a "free action", no?

now, can this fighter, on entering a room, move 30' and attack in the same round assuming she has a light load (and light armor) and is a human (ie unencumbered)

can she move 30', attack, then take a free 5 foot step?

let's say she's entered a very large chamber and announces she wants to Charge at the Orcs 50 feet away--assuming here the party has surprised these Orcs, what she wants to do here is close with them and make a melee attack in the surprise round--can she do that?

and if so, can she take a 5 foot step after the 50' charge & attack

while on the subject, can she draw her weapon as she closes (either the 30' normal move or the 50' charge)?

 

[Thanee]

You can only ever make a 5-foot step, if this is the only movement for the whole round.

If you move (note: move = movement from one position to another, not spending a move action!) you cannot also make a 5-foot step.

So, you can...

- Stand up (move action), then make a 5-foot step and attack.
- Attack, then make a 5-foot step and afterwards sheathe your weapon.

But as soon as your action includes actual movement, the 5-foot step is not possible anymore.

- Move up to your speed (30 ft.) and attack, but no 5-foot step.
- Attack and move up to your speed (30 ft.), but no 5-foot step.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Doug McCrae]

the 5 foot step is a "free action", no?

No.

now, can this fighter, on entering a room, move 30' and attack in the same round assuming she has a light load (and light armor) and is a human (ie unencumbered)

Yes.

can she move 30', attack, then take a free 5 foot step?

No. You can only take a 5-foot step if it's your only move.

let's say she's entered a very large chamber and announces she wants to Charge at the Orcs 50 feet away--assuming here the party has surprised these Orcs, what she wants to do here is close with them and make a melee attack in the surprise round--can she do that?

Not in a surprise round. You only get a standard action in the surprise round, not a full round action, so she could only charge 30 feet and attack. If it was a normal round then she could do it.

and if so, can she take a 5 foot step after the 50' charge & attack

No.

while on the subject, can she draw her weapon as she closes (either the 30' normal move or the 50' charge)?

Yes. Anyone with a BAB of +1 or higher can draw a weapon during a move action.

 

[Thanee]

Yes. Anyone with a BAB of +1 or higher can draw a weapon during a move action.

While this is correct, it's not the complete answer.

You can draw your weapon as part of a regular move (that is a move action to move up to your speed), but you cannot draw the weapon, if you charge (because charge is not a regular move)!

Bye
Thanee

 

[kmdietri]

From the SRD:

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

You can charge in a surprise round but you only move one times your speed. The part about charging as a move action was news to me though. I thought it was restricted to standard actions.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, the part "standard action or move action" is the same as "standard action", since as a standard action you can also do a move action.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bauglir]

OK, there are a few relevant bits of info here.

First off, actions. Ignoring free actions just for the moment..

On each turn, a character may take a move action and a standard action, or they may take a single full-round action. They could give up the standard action and take a second move action instead, but they could not give up the move action for a second standard action. (Think of a move action like 45% of a turn, and a standard action like 55% of a turn, if you like)

An example of a standard action is making a single attack. To make more than one attack is always a full-round action regardless of how many weapons the character is wielding. See http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/actionsInCombat.html for some more examples of different kinds of actions.

So - a 6th level human fighter wearing light armour, and carrying a greatsword is capable of making 2 attacks. He could..

* Move up to 30ft then make a single attack
* Make a single attack then move up to 30ft
* Make 2 attacks and don't move at all
* Move up to 60ft without attacking
* Charge up to 60ft in a straight line and attack
-See http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/specialAttacks.html

Now a surprise round is different to a normal combat round in that on your turn you may only take a single standard action. As you can see in the second link, when restricted to a standard action you may charge "up to your speed". Since the speed for a normal human is 30ft, you could not charge in and attack an orc 50ft away on the surprise round (although you could do so on a normal combat round)

Drawing a weapon is a move action. However, any creature with a base attack bonus of +1 or better may draw a weapon, and move at the same time. So your fighter could charge (or move) in while drawing her weapon.

Free actions are very quick actions. You may take a free action at any time during your turn, and there is no hard limit to the number of free actions that can be taken during a turn (although some individual types of free action are limited).

A 5-foot step is a free action, which can only be taken once per round, and also which can only be taken as long as it is the only movement taken that round. So our 6th level fighter:

COULD
* Take a 5ft step, then attack twice
* Draw a weapon, attack once, then take a 5ft step

COULD NOT
* Move up to 30ft, attack once, then take a 5ft step
* Charge up to 60ft, attack once then take a 5ft step

That all make sense? (And did I miss anything?)

 

[Bauglir]

Edit: Never mind. I'm an idiot.

 

[taliesin15]

thanks everyone for the clarifications so far...now here's one that's slightly more complex

similar situation, the party has listened at a door and heard Orcs grumbling and arguing with each other in the large chamber beyond--they burst through the unlocked door, surprising the Orcs

2nd level fighter is carrying a lantern, has the feat of Quick Draw--he wants to burst through the door, set the lantern down, close with the Orcs 30' away, Quick Draw his Bastard Sword, and attack the nearest Orc, all in the surprise round--and he wants the three other fighter types to do this, and the others to follow just inside the 5' wide door from the standard 10' dungeon corridor, step to the side, and fire readied missile weapons from side angles, avoiding hitting the melee-meting-out PCs and allied NPCs in the middle of the room, 30' away--all in the surprise round

seems to me the lantern setting down quick draw rush and slash and the missile firing behind them seem a little untenable--all in a 6 second surprise round--its not these are 10th level Monks

 

[Thanee]

2nd level fighter is carrying a lantern, has the feat of Quick Draw--he wants to burst through the door, set the lantern down, close with the Orcs 30' away, Quick Draw his Bastard Sword, and attack the nearest Orc, all in the surprise round

Opening the door would probably come before the surprise round, so let's assume the door is already open.

Drawing the bastard sword is a free action thanks to Quick Draw, so no problem, can be done in addition to anything else below.

Dropping the lantern is a free action, but that's dropping the lantern. Putting it safely onto the ground is a move action. So, other than a 5-foot step, that would be it for the round. So let's assume he drops it (or, the smarter way... puts it down BEFORE opening the door (he could also draw the weapon then, so wouldn't even really need Quick Draw, but it works either way) ).

Moving towards the orc is a move action. Nothing else could be done during the surprise round (and the lantern would still be in hand then or dropped carelessly to the floor).

Attacking is a standard action, so not possible, unless the fighter was only 5 feet away (5-foot step + attack), because of the distance to the orcs.

Of course, since this is a surprise round, the fighter can do a "restricted charge" (only possible, if your actions are limited to a standard or move action), thereby move up to his speed in a straight line towards the orc and attack (lantern still in hand or dropped carelessly to the floor).

and he wants the three other fighter types to do this, and the others to follow just inside the 5' wide door from the standard 10' dungeon corridor, step to the side, and fire readied missile weapons from side angles, avoiding hitting the melee-meting-out PCs and allied NPCs in the middle of the room, 30' away--all in the surprise round.

One fighter could possibly stand right behind him and now look straight through the door. The other next to the melee fighter and the first ranged fighter.

Now the first could shoot (of course with a -8 penalty, -4 because of the cover (the melee fighter) and another -4 because the target is in melee (with the melee fighter) --- depending on where the other orcs are, maybe it's possible to fire at another orc, who is not in melee and only suffer the -4 for cover, which will pretty much always apply in this situation), then step back with a 5-foot step, afterwards the second fighter makes a step into the "line of fire" (into the square the first was in before) and can also shoot, and then the third takes a step right before him and shoots as well. That would work. All three can shoot (with high penalties, however), but they cannot also move in addition to that, since it's the surprise round and they can only shoot (standard action) or move (move action). And since the melee fighter had to charge to make an attack, he will definitely stand in the way, since he must charge along the most direct route, that's straight ahead.

Like this (^ being the door and O is an orc, M the melee fighter, 1,2,3 the other three):

O
___O
_O



_^
3M
21

*** M's action (drop lantern (free), quick draw sword (free), charge) ***

O
___O
_O
_M


_^
3
21

*** 1's action (shoot, 5-foot step) ***

O
___O
_O
_M


_^
3
2
_1

*** 2's action (5-foot step, shoot) ***

O
___O
_O
_M


_^
3
_2
_1

*** 3's action (5-foot step, shoot) ***

O
___O
_O
_M


_^
_3
_2
_1


The four fighters might have to use Delay to get their actions into the correct order, so that M is the first, then 1, 2 and 3 follow in that order (these three will have to delay to act after M and so on).

Bye
Thanee