Moving the game along

[Salad Shooter]

So...my group, while we have fun, has an issue. Our games drag. We get caught up in things, and a 4-5 hour game session might involve a single encounter and exploring maybe 2 rooms. It seems to be a pretty wide issue, spanning different rules-systems. We'll spend half an hour discussing whether or not to open a door. Combat drags, as well (unless the DM forces it to move quicker), where there is a lot of in-between discussion about who is going to do/who did/I thought you did/what are you doing/etc.

Any suggestions on how to move things along? Streamlining games, tips to players, how to adjust campaigns, etc. Anything is helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Ariosto]

Here are some techniques going back to the early years of D & D:

1) The Objective -- Each expedition has some goal. It might be to map an area, to explore so far beyond a secret passage or flight of stairs, to carry out a plan of attack against some monsters, or what have you. The prime objective in old D&D is to secure big treasures. Reconnaissance and planning is generally superior to wandering blindly.

2) Wandering Monsters -- These are a hazard in old D&D, because they use up resources (whether for fight, flight or ransom) and offer little in the way of x.p. even if beaten (because they do not carry treasure). Torches, food and so on may be getting used up anyway, but WM encounters really add pressure to be organized and move quickly to accomplish the objective. Loud discussions tend to attract WMs more frequently!

3) The Caller -- This is a player who speaks for the group. This is naturally a bit of a leadership position. It won't get much done unless the Caller has the group's cooperation to let the Caller end discussion and issue a decision. That might mean calling for a vote, or it might be left to the Caller to weigh the options. Ideally, people let the Caller handle routine affairs without interference, so that we can breeze through them.

4) You said it, you're doing it! -- In much of my RPG experience, the sequence of play in an encounter is about like this:
(a) GM decides what NPCs will do.
(b) GM goes around the table asking each player what he or she will do.
(c) Interactions get resolved.

In other words, it's more of a "simultaneous moves" approach than the deal of Joe moves, then Sally moves, then Bob considers his move in light of the results of Joe's and Sally's moves....

Also, you need to answer right away and your decision stands. If you hesitate too long then thinking about what to do is your move this round! If Bob and Sally get into an argument about who should do what, then that's what their characters are doing.

Players whose characters are in no position to comment on each other's actions are not allowed to do so.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

This might sound stupid, but you could try a little sandclock that runs out in a few minutes, or an egg timer with an audible ding & incessant tick-tick-tick. Wind it up whenever the GM feels the need to hurry things up after discussion has already dragged on a bit-- especially in combat or while searching a dungeon where time would actually be important.

If nothing else, seeing the timer on the table might prompt the GM to prompt the others to stay focused on the "next" thing that happens in the game, rather the "now" thing.

On the other hand, if everyone's enjoying themselves I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

[LostSoul]

Players in my game can sometimes over-analyse decisions. I've only recently started playing this way, so this discussion will help me as well.

2) Wandering Monsters

Ariosto, would/do you keep track of real-world time when determining when to make wandering monster checks? Also, do you consider player discussion to be in-game when determining if you should make a wandering monster check?

3) The Caller

I think the Caller was a brilliant piece of game design.

 

[Gilladian]

I have mixed feelings about "pushing the game along". In one respect, a lot of roleplay and fun goes on during these discussions, so I tend to let that happen. I mean, there's a lot of fun listening to the fighter and the rogue call each other "froglegs" and "cannibal" respectively.

But at the same time, when a discussion devolves into a long argument about whether or not a keg of gunpowder can blow up a pylon on a quay, it is time to get things moving.

So, as DM, I wait until I think a conversation has reached a point of declining time vs fun benefit, and then I interrupt and summarize: "Character A will do x, and Characters B and C will do y, right?" If they disagree, I give them time to restate. Then I resummarize, and after a little back and forth, we move on.

That's outside combat. In combat, I tend to be a bit less relaxed. If they say they're doing it, and if they move their mini to do it, they did it. No takebacks. And if they SAY it, so did their character. This is also true when we're "in scene" during roleplay. If I'm voicing my remarks AS the NPC, the remarks they make are AS PCs.

In combination, these things tend to move the game along at a decent pace. Since we only play 3 hour sessions, we like to try to get a lot done with our time. We can usually get 1-3 good combats, and 2-3 noncombat scenes done.

 

[Salad Shooter]

Here are some techniques going back to the early years of D & D:

1) The Objective -- Each expedition has some goal. It might be to map an area, to explore so far beyond a secret passage or flight of stairs, to carry out a plan of attack against some monsters, or what have you. The prime objective in old D&D is to secure big treasures. Reconnaissance and planning is generally superior to wandering blindly.

2) Wandering Monsters -- These are a hazard in old D&D, because they use up resources (whether for fight, flight or ransom) and offer little in the way of x.p. even if beaten (because they do not carry treasure). Torches, food and so on may be getting used up anyway, but WM encounters really add pressure to be organized and move quickly to accomplish the objective. Loud discussions tend to attract WMs more frequently!

3) The Caller -- This is a player who speaks for the group. This is naturally a bit of a leadership position. It won't get much done unless the Caller has the group's cooperation to let the Caller end discussion and issue a decision. That might mean calling for a vote, or it might be left to the Caller to weigh the options. Ideally, people let the Caller handle routine affairs without interference, so that we can breeze through them.

4) You said it, you're doing it! -- In much of my RPG experience, the sequence of play in an encounter is about like this:
(a) GM decides what NPCs will do.
(b) GM goes around the table asking each player what he or she will do.
(c) Interactions get resolved.

In other words, it's more of a "simultaneous moves" approach than the deal of Joe moves, then Sally moves, then Bob considers his move in light of the results of Joe's and Sally's moves....

Also, you need to answer right away and your decision stands. If you hesitate too long then thinking about what to do is your move this round! If Bob and Sally get into an argument about who should do what, then that's what their characters are doing.

Players whose characters are in no position to comment on each other's actions are not allowed to do so.

We do bring in some wandering monsters on occasion. On some of the times where I've DM'd, I've started 10 second countdowns. I guess we could try throwing more random encounters at the players - much of the slow down does happen outside of combat.

I'm always cautious about the Caller idea. Sometimes the focus on the caller can be too great. We try the simultaneous thing, it works, but we have to be careful to limit the discussion before deciding, since that's when they talk and discuss forever. Thanks for the tips!

This might sound stupid, but you could try a little sandclock that runs out in a few minutes, or an egg timer with an audible ding & incessant tick-tick-tick. Wind it up whenever the GM feels the need to hurry things up after discussion has already dragged on a bit-- especially in combat or while searching a dungeon where time would actually be important.

If nothing else, seeing the timer on the table might prompt the GM to prompt the others to stay focused on the "next" thing that happens in the game, rather the "now" thing.

On the other hand, if everyone's enjoying themselves I wouldn't sweat it too much.

It's kind of a strange thing, everyone enjoys themselves while the game is going on, but people get frustrated about the fact that we never go anywhere.

Doing more timing of what we do might be a good thing to try, we do it some, but adding additional time checks might add a bit more motion.

Thanks guys, keep the ideas coming!

 

[Salad Shooter]

I have mixed feelings about "pushing the game along". In one respect, a lot of roleplay and fun goes on during these discussions, so I tend to let that happen. I mean, there's a lot of fun listening to the fighter and the rogue call each other "froglegs" and "cannibal" respectively.

But at the same time, when a discussion devolves into a long argument about whether or not a keg of gunpowder can blow up a pylon on a quay, it is time to get things moving.

So, as DM, I wait until I think a conversation has reached a point of declining time vs fun benefit, and then I interrupt and summarize: "Character A will do x, and Characters B and C will do y, right?" If they disagree, I give them time to restate. Then I resummarize, and after a little back and forth, we move on.

That's outside combat. In combat, I tend to be a bit less relaxed. If they say they're doing it, and if they move their mini to do it, they did it. No takebacks. And if they SAY it, so did their character. This is also true when we're "in scene" during roleplay. If I'm voicing my remarks AS the NPC, the remarks they make are AS PCs.

In combination, these things tend to move the game along at a decent pace. Since we only play 3 hour sessions, we like to try to get a lot done with our time. We can usually get 1-3 good combats, and 2-3 noncombat scenes done.

The real problem is that not much roleplaying goes on during these delays. It's a lot of out of character chatter. They'll get going in character, and then break character and discuss who has the best armor, or the best weapon for the job.

There's been 4 hour sessions where we explore 1 room and get into 1 combat encounter.

Sounds like a nice egg-timer or something is the key, here

 

[Haltherrion]

First off, the group as a whole has to want to move things along faster. If they like the leisurely pace, methods to speed things up will fail. But most often, a group won't object to faster play; they just slip into habits that slow things down.





Various things I've found useful:

• Tell the group you want faster play. They will usually cooperate (at least for a while )
• Try to identify time saps and put an end to them. These vary but some places to look:
  • Fuzzy start times with players straggling in
  • Too many breaks for food or beverages
  • Too many side conversations about movies, MMORGs, whatever.
• Combat is often the biggest time waster
  • Insist players prepare for their action while the others are acting. Start skipping them if they aren't ready. Usually the round is short, 6 seconds. A little player dithering is easy to represent as PC uncertainty for just a moment.
  • Disallow secondary PCs, henchmen, companions
  • As a ref, run simpler encounters. If every encounter brings the party to the edge of defeat, they are going to over analyze every action. Throw mostly below average encounters, some average and only a few hard ones and you will find you can get 3x the encounters in.
• Talk to players about any problem behaviors like asking others what they should do, spending 20 minutes looking up the right spell, etc.
• Be flexible as a DM on your rulings. Is it worth arguing for 5 minutes about whether that half square is obstructed? Just defer to the players. If it really matters you should be more careful about how you layout the battlefield but it almost never really matters
• Analyze your weaknesses as a ref. We all have them. Are you slow to pick out creatures for an encounter? Then pick them out before the session. Do you struggle to name NPCs? Get a name book or come prepared with 10-20 useful names (you wont use them all in one session anyway and will have them for the next session.) Have trouble fleshing out your NPCs on the fly? Create mini-NPC descriptions ahead of time. It's not all prep this or that. You can also avoid the things you aren't good at, used canned adventures, you name it.

I've tried a number of these things over the years. The most effective for me has proven to be:

• Strictly limit players to one PC (my group often gets sucked into more than one PC for one reason or another)
• Move the median encounter difficulty down a notch or two.

Those two things give me the most bang for the buck. To contradict myself, these two methods work even if the players don't want faster play...

Cheers and good luck.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Any suggestions on how to move things along? Streamlining games, tips to players, how to adjust campaigns, etc. Anything is helpful.

First question: Are you a player or the GM?

If you're a player, create an impetuous character and then have them act accordingly. Group is debating whether or not to open a door? Kick open the door. Group is worried about a hallway? Throw some marbles down there and start prodding with your 10-foot pole. (You don't have to throw caution to the wind; you just have to be decisive and willing to act without a group consensus.)

If you're the GM, the first thing I'd recommend is talking to the group about it: Do they think it's a problem? Do they wish thing were moving at a faster clip?

If they perceive a problem, then there are several things you can do:

(1) Timer in combat. Barring extraordinary circumstances, everybody gets 30 seconds to make a decision. (I don't find a literal timer works all that well because circumstances do vary; but when it feels like someone is merely dithering, start a 5 second countdown. If they haven't made a decision, they're delaying. Go to the next person and continue resolving actions until they have made a decision and are ready to act.)

(2) Prompt them for decisions. (Don't make decisions for them. But when they're out of combat and it feels like the debate is just going in circles or they're dithering, just ask: "So... what are you doing?")

(3) Add wandering monster checks and track discussions in real time. You've been talking for 10 minutes? I'm making a check. (It may take a couple of encounters, but once they realize you're not bluffing and their delays are having consequences, they'll figure out how to stop delaying.)

(4) Another important question to master: "Is there anything else anyone wants to accomplish?" If so, great, you can now resolve it. If not, then you're free to hit the fast forward button and say, "Okay, so you hang out in the inn for three hours and then (something happens)."

Some of the stuff <a href="http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/591/roleplaying-games/random-gm-tips-running-combat">here</a> can also help on your side of the screen.

The real problem is that not much roleplaying goes on during these delays. It's a lot of out of character chatter. They'll get going in character, and then break character and discuss who has the best armor, or the best weapon for the job.

Yup. That's a problem that can be solved with #3: "So... what are you doing?" That's usually all it takes to refocus the group.

 

[nedjer]

There's been 4 hour sessions where we explore 1 room and get into 1 combat encounter.

That'd be 20 minutes of that, then 3 hours 40 minutes of the group investigating who stabbed me in the heart when the rest of the table wasn't looking. At the end of which they'd find it was a self-inflicted wound.