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Moving towards no minis in 4e combat

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
It's been a casualty of how busy I've been (work, boardgaming, ccging and roleplaying), but the humble D&D Miniature is seeing less and less of my game table.

Why? Well, I just haven't had the time to properly search through the 2,000 odd minis I have for those perfect ones... and being completely overbusy in the last few weeks, I've also not had enough time to fine the imperfect ones. So, we've been having a few combats without minis at all.

While I'm sure that we're losing a few tactical options (and occasionally my players may be frustrated by a few imprecise descriptions), 4e-without-minis feels a lot like the games of 1e-without-minis I used to play back in the 80s.

Probably the biggest difference between the two is that 4e has a lot more powers that move things around the battlefield than 1e did. (Indeed, in 1e, I'm sure that any "I knock him off the cliff" needed to be a narrative trick adjudged by the DM rather than being supported anywhere in the rules). Without minis, adjudication of these effects does move more to a narrative feel; the drawback, of course, is that you've got to trust your DM. Is it a drawback? It can be, if you've got the DM who always says "No!" Luckily for my players, I'm not that DM.

So, when they create a zone of necrotic energy and then the fighter attempted to use Tide of Iron to knock the Ogre into it, I allowed it. And everyone rejoiced. Nate's teleport-happy warlock is a bit more challenging to run (I occasionally think of him as Nightcrawler-on-speed), but it's achievable.

To some extent, I believe that I first needed a solid background of running 4e-with-minis to see how the system worked, but now I have that background - and the background of a lot of AD&D 1st and 2nd edition without minis - the "requirement" of minis for 4e seems a lot more loose. Imagination works - at least some of the time. :)

So, how are you finding it? Have you abandoned minis for your 4e games? Did you never use them? Or do you still find them essential (or you just prefer using them?)

Cheers!
 

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Nebulous

Legend
So, how are you finding it? Have you abandoned minis for your 4e games? Did you never use them? Or do you still find them essential (or you just prefer using them?)

Cheers!


Nope, not yet, but i'm glad to hear that it CAN work in 4e. I love minis and generally don't have a hard time finding "just the right one." (Like you, i have a gazillion metal and plastic ones). What i'm finding infinitely harder now is getting the right map, and as i don't have a projector or some such set up, i'm left with print and cut and tape, which is much, much harder than finding some minis. In fact, i might just try an old school map scrawled on the erase board with no bells and frills and whistles, just to give myself a break.

But i can still foresee some arguments occuring between DM and players when it comes "You were standing right there." "No i wasn't" "Yes you were." "Nuh-uh." Have you seen that happen yet without the minis to exemplify forced movement?
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
But i can still foresee some arguments occuring between DM and players when it comes "You were standing right there." "No i wasn't" "Yes you were." "Nuh-uh." Have you seen that happen yet without the minis to exemplify forced movement?

Not much, but I haven't been using many monsters that have really cared about where the PCs are... for some reason, there have been a *lot* of brutes of late. (Brutes are fun!)

Actually, when it has happened, it's generally because I've forgotten where a PC was moving to. So, they remind me they were running *away*, I make a note, and then get the fighter rather than the wizard. :)

Cheers!
 

But i can still foresee some arguments occuring between DM and players when it comes "You were standing right there." "No i wasn't" "Yes you were." "Nuh-uh." Have you seen that happen yet without the minis to exemplify forced movement?

That's a table issue that can occur in any RPG. Once the players and the GM learn how to work together, this disappears pretty quickly. We've had no issues with playing a hundred different RPGs without minis to date.
 



ggroy

First Post
But i can still foresee some arguments occuring between DM and players when it comes "You were standing right there." "No i wasn't" "Yes you were." "Nuh-uh." Have you seen that happen yet without the minis to exemplify forced movement?

This was very common whenever I played older editions of D&D or AD&D.

Whenever I had players who were constantly arguing over such things, I usually pulled out an old chess set and used the pawns for the badguys and the other figures (ie. king, queen, rook, knight, bishop) for the player characters. After having a visual representation of the player and enemy configurations, the arguments almost always instantly went away.

After awhile, I did this very frequently. It made the combat go a lot faster.
 
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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
By no minis you mean no grid? Cause I have never used minis in my life (I like tokens).

Yeah, no grid either. Except in my head. (The incisions were painful! ;))

The combats are going by pretty quickly without minis, btw. Mind you, with the players now in command of their abilities, they go by pretty quickly with minis as well. It just seems a bit quicker...

Cheers!
 


MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Bummer. I only encountered it a few times over 30-odd years of gaming. And never to a point where it became a recurring argument.

Minis-or-no-minis was always something of a group-think thing for us; some groups used them, others didn't. It was really the availability of cheap plastic minis - the DDM line - that really started us using them consistently.

Arguments due to no minis rarely occurred, funnily enough. I guess we had good DMs and players who didn't have such problems. Or, we just didn't use monsters that caused those problems! :)

Cheers!
 

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