Multi Class Paragon Paths
Destil
Explorer
With some time to look at these closer the warlord's action point was way too good (what was I thinking? That's arguably better than what the warlord gets himself), and the ranger's was laughably weak. I've revised both a bit towards the middle.
The wizard is still weird, but then wizards are very weird mechanically. What with their vancian trappings and all.
The wizard is still weird, but then wizards are very weird mechanically. What with their vancian trappings and all.
Brother Richard
First Post
My Thoughts
I think this is a great idea!
(I just posted this exact topic about 10 hours ago with the exact same idea)
However, a few comments. I don't think there is any need to limit the class abilities. Instead of still only allowing them to work a certain amount make it the same as the class immediately. Also, I would make these Paragon Paths more like other ones. That means I would give one encounter and utility at the same level as other Paragon paths, and then would give a daily at the same level too. I would also make sure to only give three abilities at the appropriate levels as with other Paragon paths.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, and your way works too. I just don't understand why you would needlessly change the how your multiclass Paragon paths work in relation to others.
I think this is a great idea!
(I just posted this exact topic about 10 hours ago with the exact same idea)
However, a few comments. I don't think there is any need to limit the class abilities. Instead of still only allowing them to work a certain amount make it the same as the class immediately. Also, I would make these Paragon Paths more like other ones. That means I would give one encounter and utility at the same level as other Paragon paths, and then would give a daily at the same level too. I would also make sure to only give three abilities at the appropriate levels as with other Paragon paths.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, and your way works too. I just don't understand why you would needlessly change the how your multiclass Paragon paths work in relation to others.
Brother Richard
First Post
My Other Post
I thought I would repost my idea here. You may want to look at it. Also, it seems as though your getting much more traffic than i did.
General - My Take on What 4e Multiclassing Should Have Been
I think that the 4e feats that allow somebody to dabble into other's powers is a great idea. However, I do not think it allows for true multiclassing. There is a way to mutliclass instead of entering a paragon class, but i feel that is suboptimal and it compromises the streamlining that 4e is so desperate to implement. Therefore, I thought it would be good to change the more focused multiclassing mechanic. Why don't you make a paragon path for mutliclasing into each class. That way, it will be balanced with other paragon paths because it is one. Each base class has about three powers like each paragon class and you could just put it in where a paragon path would put it. Then, the player would be able to choose two encounter powers at the appropriate levels and one daily. (some have two dailies instead but I like this version better).
Heres a rough example I made here:
Rogue Multiclass Paragon Path
Requirements: The Rogue Multiclass Feat (don't feel like looking it up)
Fluff
Features:
Sneak Attack(11th level)
First Strike(11th level)
Rogue Tactics(16th level)
Powers:
11th level or lower encounter power of your choice
12th level or lower utility power of your choice
20th level or lower daily power of your choice
Thats just a rough outline in 5 minutes.
What do you think?
It may Appear overpowered at first, but i think that you could find Paragon Paths better, because some are very powerful.
I thought I would repost my idea here. You may want to look at it. Also, it seems as though your getting much more traffic than i did.
General - My Take on What 4e Multiclassing Should Have Been
I think that the 4e feats that allow somebody to dabble into other's powers is a great idea. However, I do not think it allows for true multiclassing. There is a way to mutliclass instead of entering a paragon class, but i feel that is suboptimal and it compromises the streamlining that 4e is so desperate to implement. Therefore, I thought it would be good to change the more focused multiclassing mechanic. Why don't you make a paragon path for mutliclasing into each class. That way, it will be balanced with other paragon paths because it is one. Each base class has about three powers like each paragon class and you could just put it in where a paragon path would put it. Then, the player would be able to choose two encounter powers at the appropriate levels and one daily. (some have two dailies instead but I like this version better).
Heres a rough example I made here:
Rogue Multiclass Paragon Path
Requirements: The Rogue Multiclass Feat (don't feel like looking it up)
Fluff
Features:
Sneak Attack(11th level)
First Strike(11th level)
Rogue Tactics(16th level)
Powers:
11th level or lower encounter power of your choice
12th level or lower utility power of your choice
20th level or lower daily power of your choice
Thats just a rough outline in 5 minutes.
What do you think?
It may Appear overpowered at first, but i think that you could find Paragon Paths better, because some are very powerful.
Destil
Explorer
I may revise these again to shift the powers back to the correct levels. Either way is annoying: there's no level 20 class daily attack powers, but at the same time I've put some effort into keeping these as comparable as possible.
Another point is my initial eye-ball balance meeter is always set low, I find it's easier to spot underpowered stuff than overpowered myself. And better to playtest and say "This needs more" than "This needs less".
What these really need, of course, is some playtesting. I don't really have the time or players, unfortunately (no group I'm in plays their main game often enough to devote time to some playtesting). Sample PCs build both ways for mathematical comparison could work too.
The biggest goal here is to get the class enabling features down to 'at will' and pick up a at-will power. Those are the two points I'm most interested in. Choosing the right enabler is a bit of a challenge in some cases.
Cleric - Healing Word. Easy to find, a little harder to choose. Still needs some work, since this goes to 3 uses / encounter at 16th for a cleric my version is a bit... messy.
Fighter - Marking and Stickyness. Marking is easy as the warpriest is a central benchmark of this design. Determining just how sticky a non-fighter can be is harder.
Paladin - Marking, healing. I'm really happy with this one, except for the bug that his challenge gets worse at 12. I think I will re-arrange these back to the default paragon progression, just to fix that.
Ranger - Hunter's Quarry. Easy to find, easy to put in... but that same bug is back. The action point power is a little wonky (melee rangers get prime shot too).. but I don't really think that's a problem.
Rogue - Sneak attack. Yeah, this is just buggy design. I'm rearranging these as soon as I have a chance. Rogue also makes me happy, and I'd guess is among the most powerful of these.
Warlock - Curse. Because the arcane progressions are weird, anyway, this one is at least bug free.
Warlord - Needs the same wording as the rogue to let multiclass warlords choose a path and get the 'rider' bonuses to powers. His action point power looks good to me now.
Wizard - Wizards are more defined by their spells than other classes. The huge toolbox is big a part of it, though. I think this one is pretty good too, but it needs some feat support (use a weapon as an impalement).
Another point is my initial eye-ball balance meeter is always set low, I find it's easier to spot underpowered stuff than overpowered myself. And better to playtest and say "This needs more" than "This needs less".
What these really need, of course, is some playtesting. I don't really have the time or players, unfortunately (no group I'm in plays their main game often enough to devote time to some playtesting). Sample PCs build both ways for mathematical comparison could work too.
The biggest goal here is to get the class enabling features down to 'at will' and pick up a at-will power. Those are the two points I'm most interested in. Choosing the right enabler is a bit of a challenge in some cases.
Cleric - Healing Word. Easy to find, a little harder to choose. Still needs some work, since this goes to 3 uses / encounter at 16th for a cleric my version is a bit... messy.
Fighter - Marking and Stickyness. Marking is easy as the warpriest is a central benchmark of this design. Determining just how sticky a non-fighter can be is harder.
Paladin - Marking, healing. I'm really happy with this one, except for the bug that his challenge gets worse at 12. I think I will re-arrange these back to the default paragon progression, just to fix that.
Ranger - Hunter's Quarry. Easy to find, easy to put in... but that same bug is back. The action point power is a little wonky (melee rangers get prime shot too).. but I don't really think that's a problem.
Rogue - Sneak attack. Yeah, this is just buggy design. I'm rearranging these as soon as I have a chance. Rogue also makes me happy, and I'd guess is among the most powerful of these.
Warlock - Curse. Because the arcane progressions are weird, anyway, this one is at least bug free.
Warlord - Needs the same wording as the rogue to let multiclass warlords choose a path and get the 'rider' bonuses to powers. His action point power looks good to me now.
Wizard - Wizards are more defined by their spells than other classes. The huge toolbox is big a part of it, though. I think this one is pretty good too, but it needs some feat support (use a weapon as an impalement).
Destil
Explorer
Something like this makes me worry, simply because there's more to a class than class features. I'd rather gradate the abilities a bit more finely, myself...Brother Richard said:
I doubt it's terribly overpowered, mostly because sneak attack itself is so in scope. I think for a ranger/cleric it would look a lot stronger...
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