Multiclass Feat Weirdness?

[TimeOut]

in combat, the number of healing surges is usually not the constraint, its the amount of times one is allowed to use it.

That. When we had a TPK during the Irontooth encounter, we still had a lot of healing surges left. But we had no abilities or items to access them.

So each power which allows you to access one of your healing surges to actually heal someone is really good. Especially at early levels.

 

[theNater]

OH and Im also not happy that even classes limite you to what concepts you can use in 4e in general.

Try Making a Ranged weapon (not magic) Fighter, Cleric, Warlord, Paladin. You cant use any of your attack powers because they are all Melee.

VERY limiting and something that I would have screamed about if I was a Playtester.

What is it you want your ranged weapon Fighter to do?
Fire a bunch of arrows into your enemies? Rangers can do that.
Shoot your enemies so hard they stagger back a space? Rangers can do that.
Cause ongoing damage with your bow? Rangers can do that.
Be called a Fighter and have ranged weapon powers? Fighter/Rangers can do that.
Be called a Fighter and have only ranged weapon powers? Okay, there you're out of luck.
Have a reliable power that does 7[W] damage at a range of 40 squares? Can't do that either.
Have the hit points & healing surges of a Fighter and the ranged damage output of a Ranger? Can't do that, and I for one am glad.

Give me your character's strategy and I'll happily try to set up a build for you. Note that "kills things at range", "heals people while staying way the heck away from enemies", and "stabs the first thing he sees until it stops moving, then does it again and again until there's no baddies left" are strategies, while "is a member of the Fighter class and primarily uses a hand crossbow" isn't.

 

[Particle_Man]

I am looking forward to a human wizard that takes the multi-feat for cleric (healing word) and then goes to the Divine Oracle healing path. My wizard is never surprised? Yes please!

And I heard rumours that the high end cleric daily at 29th trumps the high end wizard daily at 29th so might get the daily swap feat, at higher levels.

 

[Particle_Man]

Double posts are somehow more appropriate in threads about multi-classing.

 

[melkoriii]

What is it you want your ranged weapon Fighter to do?
Fire a bunch of arrows into your enemies? Rangers can do that.
Shoot your enemies so hard they stagger back a space? Rangers can do that.
Cause ongoing damage with your bow? Rangers can do that.
Be called a Fighter and have ranged weapon powers? Fighter/Rangers can do that.
Be called a Fighter and have only ranged weapon powers? Okay, there you're out of luck.
Have a reliable power that does 7[W] damage at a range of 40 squares? Can't do that either.
Have the hit points & healing surges of a Fighter and the ranged damage output of a Ranger? Can't do that, and I for one am glad.

Give me your character's strategy and I'll happily try to set up a build for you. Note that "kills things at range", "heals people while staying way the heck away from enemies", and "stabs the first thing he sees until it stops moving, then does it again and again until there's no baddies left" are strategies, while "is a member of the Fighter class and primarily uses a hand crossbow" isn't.

True enough that the Fighter as a Defender is not a good option for ranged attacks.

I was more talking about Cleric and Warlord.

I have characters that are party healers that focus on Ranged attacks (Bow) but cant make them in 4e since picking up Ranger does not give access to at-will ranged attacks.

I could presumably do it at Paragon lvl by not taking a Path but that is not a good option since you dont get any of the Class features of the MCed class.

PLUS both Cleric and Warlord weapon powers are Str melee.

 

[silentounce]

True enough that the Fighter as a Defender is not a good option for ranged attacks.

I was more talking about Cleric and Warlord.

I have characters that are party healers that focus on Ranged attacks (Bow) but cant make them in 4e since picking up Ranger does not give access to at-will ranged attacks.

I could presumably do it at Paragon lvl by not taking a Path but that is not a good option since you dont get any of the Class features of the MCed class.

PLUS both Cleric and Warlord weapon powers are Str melee.

You'll just have to wait for the Ranged Divine splat book to come out, that's all.

A lot of 4e design reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrpx4NAtsFQ

 

[Vaeron]

Warlock is the one that really stands out... It states that you can take the paragon path, but the paragon path abilities require the Warlock Curse, which multiclass characters don't get. So while you could take the paragon path, you wouldn't be able to use any of the abilities of that path.

That can't be the way it's intended. That I've seen, the other multiclass paragon paths don't rely on a class skill that the multiclass feat doesn't grant, except warlocks.

 

[theNater]

True enough that the Fighter as a Defender is not a good option for ranged attacks.

I was more talking about Cleric and Warlord.

I have characters that are party healers that focus on Ranged attacks (Bow) but cant make them in 4e since picking up Ranger does not give access to at-will ranged attacks.

I could presumably do it at Paragon lvl by not taking a Path but that is not a good option since you dont get any of the Class features of the MCed class.

PLUS both Cleric and Warlord weapon powers are Str melee.

Try reflavoring Sacred Flame like this:
With a short prayer, you imbue your arrow with holy power.
Now you have an at-will ranged attack that uses your bow. It also provides "healing" in the form of temporary hit points. Similar reflavors can be done for many Cleric ranged attacks.

No, it doesn't use your bow's damage or target AC. However, you can make basic attacks with your bow on occasion, and can use the Ranger multiclass feats to take a few serious shots per encounter that do use your bow's damage and target AC.

Not enough bow-based ranged combat? Try Ranger/Cleric. Now you've got at-will bow attacks that explicitly reference your bow. At level 1, you can use Healing Word once per encounter; at level 8, you can snag either Bastion of Health or Cure Serious Wounds. And you qualify for Cleric paragon paths. Radiant Servant provides a nice healing power as its level 12 utility.

There you go. Two ways to fire your bow every round while also being a healer.

 

[Alkiera]

What theNater said.

Due to narrowing the focus of classes, many concepts that were single-class before are now multiclass setups, like the ranger(cleric) above. On the other hand, some concepts that required splatbooks and prestige classes. People used to joke all the time that the Paladin and Fighter beat up the Knight from PHB2 and split up his stuff.

All those who MC'd into rogue for skillpoints before? No need, just spend a feat on Skill Training. In fact, a lot of the reasons for 'splashing' a class like rogue(skills) or fighter (armor/weapon profs) are taken care of by the feat system. When converting characters, remove 3.x class names, and just note abilities. Then find what in 4e does that, and choose that class or classes.

 

[melkoriii]

Try reflavoring Sacred Flame like this:
With a short prayer, you imbue your arrow with holy power.
Now you have an at-will ranged attack that uses your bow. It also provides "healing" in the form of temporary hit points. Similar reflavors can be done for many Cleric ranged attacks.

No, it doesn't use your bow's damage or target AC. However, you can make basic attacks with your bow on occasion, and can use the Ranger multiclass feats to take a few serious shots per encounter that do use your bow's damage and target AC.

Sorry that does not cute it for me. I can reword the whole book then why stop at flavor text. Thing is that they said 4e had MCing at 1st lvl where you were both classes. That was a HUGE stretch of the truth.

Not enough bow-based ranged combat? Try Ranger/Cleric. Now you've got at-will bow attacks that explicitly reference your bow. At level 1, you can use Healing Word once per encounter; at level 8, you can snag either Bastion of Health or Cure Serious Wounds. And you qualify for Cleric paragon paths. Radiant Servant provides a nice healing power as its level 12 utility.

There you go. Two ways to fire your bow every round while also being a healer.

Well for one as a Range/Cleric you dont get Healing Word once per Encounter. You get it once per day. Same with the Warlord inspiration. Not good in my book.

One thing Im seeing is ppl who find the MC rule good or ok are telling those that have HUGE problems with it that they are looking at it wrong or "Just wait, splat books will have it"

TO me that is crap and you obviously dont get why we are upset/dislike the rules.

As core books that was said to have MCing I find it VERY limiting and to say it will come in splat books is crap. I didnt buy the core books to need to buy splat books.

I hope they errata the crap out of MCing to be useful soon.