D&D 4E Multiclass Spellcasting in 4e

[I'm A Banana]

Perhaps the issue could be slightly solved by having one universal spells/day table, and having the Spells Known table/chart/whatnot vary on the class...

So let's take the Wiz9/Clr1. He's got the Spells Per Day of a 10th level character, but only knows cleric spells of 0 to 1st level. The rest of clericdom is off limits to him, but he's still a 10th level spellcaster with 10th level slots.

 

[drothgery]

I tried to work out variant spellcasting classes last weekend based on this idea, but I'm not completely happy with what I've got yet.

I got as far as
clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards - advance +1/lvl in caster level, +1/lvl on the spell progression chart (wizard spells per day table)
bards -- advance +1/lvl in caster level, +3/5 lvl on the spell progression chart (2/3 gives bards level 7 spells, 3/4 gives bards level 8 spells).
paladins and rangers - gain +1/2 caster level starting at level 3; gain +1/2 on the spell progression chart starting at level 5 (a straight 1/2 progression gives paladins and rangers 5th-level spells)

Then I figured you could take a cue from Talents in d20 WoT and break all the spell lists down into somethings (schools, domains, whatever). All casters would get bonus feats every X levels which they could spend to get access to a new school/feat/whatever; the choices would be limited by class.

Where I ran into trouble were most of the other problem areas mentioned above -- how to deal with bard/sorc spells known vs. wizard spellbooks vs. pal/druid/cleric/ranger prayer and bonus spells from abilities.

 

[FireLance]

I was toying with a similar system, where Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers and Wizards advance spellcasting level at +1 per level, Bards, Monks, Paladins and Rangers at +3/4 per level and Barbarians, Fighters and Rogues at +1/2 level.

So if I am a wiz 9 and I gain a level and I take a level of cleric, does that mean I can suddenly cast 5th level cleric spells?

Under my system, no. Access to higher-level spell is a function of levels in a class. However, you could use your higher-level spell slots for metamagiced spells.

 

[Psion]

A common idea is that if there is a generic spells/day chart for all spellcasters, in the same way that there is a general "iterative attacks/round" chart for combat, then spellcasting multiclassing could work the same way that all other multiclassing does - cumulatively.

If a single chart is used, then instead of unique spellcasting progressions for each class, classes have a "caster level" column, and a "spells per day" column, which indicates what row on the chart the caster uses for spell slots. For example, wizards and clerics would have +1/level in both caster level and spells/day, rangers and paladins would have +1/2 levels in both caster level and spells/day, while a bard would have +1/level caster level, but only +3/4 levels spells/day.

c.f., elements of magic.

Of course, elements of magic does away with arcane/divine distinctions in its system, and for good reason.

It's a nice variant, but for traditional D&D spellcasting classes, the issue of how to combine spell lists of classes with divergent focuses and techniques is a sticky issue.

OTOH, I am not seeing many compelling reasons why we MUST make diverging spellcasting classes stack.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed has a good fix for the former, with a system that works like an amalgam of both: Characters can have big spell lists, but choose a number of spells they have available for casting every morning, like if a Sorcerer could re-choose their spells known every day from a spellbook.

Once again, makes his model work by dispensing with traditional D&D magic archetypes.

How to deal with different spell lists is more complicated. Does anyone have suggestions?

I find it interesting that both Monte and Cyberzombie came to similar conclusions: if you want classes like this, you probably aren't going to make a neat fit to existing spellcasting concepts.

 

[Michael Tree]

Re: Re: Multiclass Spellcasting in 4e

It's a nice variant, but for traditional D&D spellcasting classes, the issue of how to combine spell lists of classes with divergent focuses and techniques is a sticky issue.

OTOH, I am not seeing many compelling reasons why we MUST make diverging spellcasting classes stack.

I'll have to check out Elements of Magic. It sounds interesting.

The point of the exercise isn't so much to make divergingspellcasting classes stack, but to figure out a way to make spellcasting stack in general. Partly it's because of a very real balance problem with multiclassing spellcasters, and partly a matter of principle: everything else in D&D 3e stacks, so why not spellcasting too?

So far the rough consensus seems to be to stack spellcasting levels, but not spell lists. If you add that class levels stack for access to spells that are on both spell lists, it's a bit more comprehensive, but also more complicated.

I believe it would be possible to make stacking multiple classes work, while still retaining the different characters of the spellcasting classes, but it would require a fairly fundemental change in the way spell lists work, not just a patch. The suggestions of using spheres of magic like 2e clerics, or like Wheel of Time spellcasters sounds like the best way to do this.