Multiclassed cleric/cleric?

[Agback]

G'day

There are a few references in the 3.5 rules to a character buying levels as a cleric of are particular deity, for example banning a cleric who has offended his or her god from buying levels as a cleric of that deity until he or she has Atoned. This hints at the possibility of a character multiclassing in clerichoods of different gods. I don't think this was intended by the rules, but it does sugggest some fascinating speculations.

In the first place, cleric class abilities (except for armour, weapon, and shield proficiencies) are granted by gods, and held during their pleasure. In most cases I expect that I would rule as a DM that a character would not be able to serve two separate deities at once, and therefore would have to be out of favour with at least one of them at any time. I would even be skeptical of claim that a single character could serve both, say, a Chaotic Neutral deity and the abstract principle of Chaos at the same time. The upshot would be, I think, that a 3/3 Cleric/Cleric of two different gods would be effectively a 3rd level cleric of one of those gods with extra hit dice, BAB, saves, and skill points. His or her spellcasting and turning would be way behind a straight-up 6th-level cleric, and I don't see a player wanting to play such a character. Perhaps it might be interesting for an NPC with history: defrocked cleric of one god starting over with another or with an abstract divine principle. The only ability I am doubtful about is the doubled first-level bonus to the cleric's two good saves.

Now here is a question. Suposing that in some strange circumstance the DM decided that two gods would not mind a pet cleric serving both of them. Would it be grossly unbalanced for a character to have the domains and spells corresponding to being a multiclassed cleric with separate levels in being the cleric of two different gods or of a god and an abstract divine force? How does a 3/3 cleric/cleric stack up against a 6 cleric? Or a 5/4 cleric/cleric against a 9 cleric? Would spellcasting be weaker? Would doubled domains and gross saves make up for this? Would you rule that turning was based on the higher level or the sum of the levels? Or that the character got two lots of turn attempts at possibly different power levels?

 

[Henry]

I have absolutely no clue what the rules as written say about this. I've never seen anyone try it, same as I've never seen someone take two different wizard specializations (rules specifically say you can't do that, though).

If you were to do it, I don't see any unbalancing aspects, though, and in fact, much like a wizard/cleric, you'd be underpowered for your level, but more versatile.

From what I understand, though, If a cleric switched gods, they'd just switch whole class and all, losing the old domains and gaining the new ones but keeping the level.

 

[vulcan_idic]

G'day

There are a few references in the 3.5 rules to a character buying levels as a cleric of are particular deity, for example banning a cleric who has offended his or her god from buying levels as a cleric of that deity until he or she has Atoned. This hints at the possibility of a character multiclassing in clerichoods of different gods. I don't think this was intended by the rules, but it does sugggest some fascinating speculations.

In the first place, cleric class abilities (except for armour, weapon, and shield proficiencies) are granted by gods, and held during their pleasure. In most cases I expect that I would rule as a DM that a character would not be able to serve two separate deities at once, and therefore would have to be out of favour with at least one of them at any time. I would even be skeptical of claim that a single character could serve both, say, a Chaotic Neutral deity and the abstract principle of Chaos at the same time. The upshot would be, I think, that a 3/3 Cleric/Cleric of two different gods would be effectively a 3rd level cleric of one of those gods with extra hit dice, BAB, saves, and skill points. His or her spellcasting and turning would be way behind a straight-up 6th-level cleric, and I don't see a player wanting to play such a character. Perhaps it might be interesting for an NPC with history: defrocked cleric of one god starting over with another or with an abstract divine principle. The only ability I am doubtful about is the doubled first-level bonus to the cleric's two good saves.

Now here is a question. Suposing that in some strange circumstance the DM decided that two gods would not mind a pet cleric serving both of them. Would it be grossly unbalanced for a character to have the domains and spells corresponding to being a multiclassed cleric with separate levels in being the cleric of two different gods or of a god and an abstract divine force? How does a 3/3 cleric/cleric stack up against a 6 cleric? Or a 5/4 cleric/cleric against a 9 cleric? Would spellcasting be weaker? Would doubled domains and gross saves make up for this? Would you rule that turning was based on the higher level or the sum of the levels? Or that the character got two lots of turn attempts at possibly different power levels?

I could actually see this taking place. It's not too hard for me to imagine a Cleric 3 (Elven Pantheon)/Cleric 3 (Corellon Larethian(sp?)) for example - and I have difficulty imagining in such a case that the two entities would mind sharing as one is part of the other.

I would probably rule it as each class having their own characteristics - so they would Turn/Cast/etc. as a cleris of third for each group represented. They would have more spells/turn attempts... but each would be much less powerful. I see no problem with this as I see the power hurting the cleric much more as time goes by - they just won't have the power to push through spell/turn resistance or have as great an effect as someone more focused in their faith - much like a person who spends their skill points one or two everywhere rather than a few maxed out skills. I would see it as probably a suboptimal choice, but perfectly valid... and probably a very interesting character story to go with it!!

 

[Eloi]

G'day

There are a few references in the 3.5 rules to a character buying levels as a cleric of are particular deity, for example banning a cleric who has offended his or her god from buying levels as a cleric of that deity until he or she has Atoned. This hints at the possibility of a character multiclassing in clerichoods of different gods. I don't think this was intended by the rules, but it does sugggest some fascinating speculations.
-snip-
Now here is a question. Suposing that in some strange circumstance the DM decided that two gods would not mind a pet cleric serving both of them. Would it be grossly unbalanced for a character to have the domains and spells corresponding to being a multiclassed cleric with separate levels in being the cleric of two different gods or of a god and an abstract divine force? How does a 3/3 cleric/cleric stack up against a 6 cleric? Or a 5/4 cleric/cleric against a 9 cleric? Would spellcasting be weaker? Would doubled domains and gross saves make up for this? Would you rule that turning was based on the higher level or the sum of the levels? Or that the character got two lots of turn attempts at possibly different power levels?

A 5/4 versus a 9: An equal amount of divine favor, just more diffusely applied - more of it is sticking to the saves and expressing itself as 1st and 2nd level spells. You are a living curiosity - holy men come from miles around and ask you wondering, mildly impertinent questions such as, "How is it that you are not.. melted butter?"

Turning, oh, what a can of worms. Two styles of turning, so two sets of turn attempts at different power levels- but you'd better be fair and even about whom you call upon in your hour of need, or the Gods get sulky fast.

I wish your Cleric much luck dancing on the razorblades. Now you have me wondering about a Kord/Pelor "hybrid" spawned by a Magic Jar.

One thing I would certainly caution against: don't change alignment, no matter what. An Atonement spell would rip this Cleric in half, when all the rebounding was said and done.

 

[Thanee]

The character would be a lot weaker than a full-scale cleric.

About the same BAB, silghtly better saves, weaker turning (but more often per day), two extra domain abilities, but only like half the spellcasting power, because of the much lower spell levels!

A shizophrenic cleric/cleric of Heironeous/Hextor sounds fun!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't think this was intended by the rules, but it does sugggest some fascinating speculations.

Not having the books at work, I'm sure I read something that you can't multiclass into the same class. I think that statement is only in the book, though, not in d20. Can anyone confirm that?

Would it be grossly unbalanced for a character to have the domains and spells corresponding to being a multiclassed cleric with separate levels in being the cleric of two different gods or of a god and an abstract divine force?

Not IMO, not at all. As others have pointed out, it's actually a huge drawback. The two clerical spell lists are maintained completely separately. You'd have to decide if the turning stacks (I'd allow it as long as they're both inflict or both cure-based clerical classes). It's underbalanced as an idea, but it's certainly an interesting option for an NPC. I certainly wouldn't advocate it as a PC because IMO the uniqueness of it would wear off quickly, from both a role-playing and roll-playing perspective (very underpowered and you can take only so much from the RP side before everything becomes trite).

Hope that helps.

 

[Pasus Nauran]

Here we are, in the PHB on page 59, under the heading Adding a Second Class:

"(A character can't gain 1st level in the same class more than once, even if this would allow him or her to select different class features, such as a different set of domains for a cleric)."

So, by RAW, the concept of this thread is not possible. Of course, as usual your DM can always choose to allow it as a house rule.

It would be an interesting concept for a character with multiple personality disorder, but otherwise I don't think I'd allow it.

 

[nittanytbone]

This could be subject to some "abuse" if a player dipped into one level of cleric for domains like "luck" and "war" which don't have level dependent granted powers.

 

[Eva of Sirrion]

I would probably forbid doing this. In my game it definitely wouldn't work because I allow characters to have 1 and only 1 patron deity. But in a more general case, in my mind it's not enough to consider them variant classes. However, what if you wanted to multiclass as (for example) a cleric of the Sovereign Host/ cloistered cleric of Aureon (both from the Eberron campaign setting)? Then I'd consider it.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

There are a few references in the 3.5 rules to a character buying levels as a cleric of are particular deity, for example banning a cleric who has offended his or her god from buying levels as a cleric of that deity until he or she has Atoned. This hints at the possibility of a character multiclassing in clerichoods of different gods. I don't think this was intended by the rules, but it does sugggest some fascinating speculations.

You are correct that it was not, for the reasons cited. The reason why it has to specifically say you can't gain levels as a cleric "of that deity" is clearly that you can switch deities, in which case you certainly don't have to atone to your previous patron before gaining more cleric levels.

Okay, back to the fascinating speculations.