Multiclassing: "Any combo, any level, always works."

[Celebrim]

As part of my attempts to fix the 'gish' problem, I have a feat that lets your caster level be equal to your character level. It doesn't give you any more spells or higher level spells, but it does let - for example - your Ftr16/Sor4 cast magic missle as a 20th level caster.

Suppose that that feat was built into the system. Your caster level is always equal to your character level. We know that the mechanics of spells per day and spell level are changing dramatically. Under those assumptions, its not entirely unreasonable to think that a Ftr10/Sor10 is going to be roughly as playable as a Ftr20 or Sor20.

I also have a homebrew feat that increase your spell progression by 2 class levels up to a maximum of your character level. For example, in my homebrew, a Ftr5/Sor1 with this feat casts spells as third level sorcerer (and since the previously mentioned feat is a prequisite) at caster level 6. In my experience, this isn't far from being an effective cludge - in practice because its linear at same points in the progression its too powerful and in other combinations too weak. And it still forces you to go for a time at very low levels with a less than optimal build. It does achieve the goal I had of encouraging splashing (and it allowed me to build certain low level NPCs I couldn't have built otherwise). If similar ideas are built design of 4e, I have very little doubt that they can come close to pulling off the goal. The results of playtesting seem to suggest that.

No, I'm as skeptical about 4e as anyone, but in this matter I think that the mechanical fix is there if they want it badly enough especially since, unfortunately, I see alot of the 4e classes as potentially being "a mish-mash of roughly interchangeable abilities" and that this was in fact a design goal.

 

[BryonD]

See, BryonD is "unlearning" at such a fast pace that he can't even respond. 4e did this to him.

That isn't true. As a matter of fact I'm learning so fast that the jibber of the kloorgund hewk kold ratakll.

 

[Henry]

So they take the challenge out of making a multiclass character? Great now players dont actually have to learn or earn anything. 3e=Thinking mans game. 4e=Crap so far.

So you're saying that THACO kept the riffraff out?

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

That isn't true. As a matter of fact I'm learning so fast that the jibber of the kloorgund hewk kold ratakll.

You obviously haven't been playtesting any 4e, then.

 

[The_Gneech]

the problem of "GISH" (yeeech)

Dude. Call 'em warrior-mages. You'll be happier in the long run. Don't force yourself to use slang terms that feel unnatural.

-The Gneech

 

[Celebrim]

...nm...

 

[Irda Ranger]

I think the people who are guessing that character level is determinative on some things are on the right track. We don't have enough details to say how it really works, but here are some guesses on what a Fighter14/Wizard1 might look like, using 3.x-isms:

No Delayed Blast Fireball, but Magic Missile as a 15th level caster.

Magic Missile as a character with BAB +14

Cast a Shield that absorbs 10 HP or 33% of your HP total before dissolving, whichever is higher.

Etc.

Spell Variables can be hooked to a lot of things besides caster level.

 

[breschau]

The best way to fix the caster level problem for multi-classing is to retool character level to be based on total xp earned rather than total class levels. This will increase the levels available in multi-classing. Instead of 11th-level characters being 10th-level fighter/1st-level sorcerer, from a class levels=character level view, the character would be 10th-level fighter/4th-level sorcerer, from a xp total=character level view.

Some kind of sliding scale, say ECL+1 per additional class, to determine xp cost would be necessary as well.

This helps a bit, and still limits multi-class casters from being just as powerful as single class casters. You have to give something up for multi-classing after all.

 

[Snapdragyn]

First of all, the biggest problem in 3.5 is when you multiclass melee types with caster types.

Oh, I think that multiclassing 3/4 BAB melee types can give you a good run for the money on that one. If your character concept involves one level in each of a few 3/4 BAB classes, there are enough of those around now that you can get pretty high up before you even hit BAB of 1 - which is sad when you're trying to be a melee build. It's an artifact of the rounding that can make for some really interesting twists.

 

[pawsplay]

Color me sceptical.

Color me skeptical burst, bane versus bulls.