Multiclassing Essentials Characters with PHB1 & 2 MC Feats

[Uller]

The recent thread on multiclassing and hybrid essentials characters got my attention. I've always been a fan of multi-classing all the way back to 1e (and dual classing as it was then).

I DM two groups. I have Heroes of Forgotten Lands, Heroes of Fallen Kingdoms and PHB1 and 2 available.

My work group has two multiclassed characters:
3rd level human druid MC as a Rogue.
3rd Level Elf Cleric MC as Ranger.

I also run a game for my son...it only has 3 characters (Essentials Ranger, Knight and Mage). With no cleric or rogue I am contemplating advising him to MC the ranger to a rogue and the knight to a warlord. The power swap feats seem much less useful for essentials characters, especially the ones that don't follow the normal At-Will/Encounter/Daily power pattern. But giving the party a bit of extra healing and Thievery/Sneak Attack seems like it might be useful...some of the paragon path options in the PHB seem like they might be cool for these characters.

What has people's experience with 4e multiclassing?

 

[RangerWickett]

Only one player I know has actually used a power swap feat, and that was just because he was min-maxing for a dragon hunting campaign and wanted to pick up the best daily powers to neuter solos.

Everyone else just took the initial multiclass feat for a skill and some minor benefit.

If I ran a game, I'd probably let people spend one feat to multiclass, and spend another feat to get an extra at-will power and choose one extra encounter power. But they'd still have the same amount of 'encounter power uses' per encounter. Essential folks could choose whether to power strike or use their multi-class encounter power.

I think the game is too timid when it comes to allowing multiclassing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, I think 4Ed's base multiclassing rules are weak- the hybrid rules from PHB3 are more to my liking.

That said, almost every PC I've designed for 4Ed is either Hybrid or multiclassed or both. And as yet, of course, the base MC rules are the only game in town for Essentials classes. Despite being a bit blah, though, some MC combos can get you some nifty synergies.

in your situation, I'd either grant a free MC feat OR run a DM PC who is able to round out the party.

 

[mneme]

Danny: not quite. You can multiclass to a classic class and take a feat to gain some Essentials features, or can Hybrid to, IIRC, Executioner.

 

[Zaran]

I always give the power swap feats for free. I see no reason at all why it should cost a feat to swap a power for one of equal or lower level.

 

[Argyle King]

I love multiclassing. I don't believe it is weak, you just need to put some thought into it. Some combos are pretty brutal. An Eladrin Barbarian who MCs into Fighter to qualify for Fey Charge comes to mind.

One of the reasons I tend to like MCing over hybrid is because I don't need to give up class features or worry about some of my features not working when I use certain powers. I like picking up some bursts and blasts when I play a fighter. The Warlord is also a very friendly MCing class. With strength as your primaries, pretty much anything that uses STR is a good choice. With INT or CHA being the other ability you use a lot, it's also possible to MC into a wide variety of caster classes to great effect.


As for the OP... if all you want is a little extra healing, you could probably get by with the characters only taking the first MC feat into a healing class. It's only once per day, but if more than one character does so, that would probably be enough to help cushion things.

I'm not very familiar with the Essentials classes, but if the Mage works similarly to the Wizard (I think it does,) you could probably MC into Cleric and do alright. I think there's a PP in PHB which allows you to reroll missed attacks which were made against Will -which tends to be quite a few wizard powers. It would also give the Mage some healing ability, and since I imagine he's the character who tends to keep distance between himself and the enemy anyway, he's probably a good candidate to give some of the healing to.

I won't comment on the ranger because it's hard to say without knowing what kind of ranger he is. If all you are looking for is for some sneak attack and thievery, Rogue is probably fine.

I know pretty much nothing at all about the knight, so I have no idea. However, again, if all you want is a little more healing, I see no harm in taking the first MC feat for a leader class just to get some healing.

 

[Uller]

The Essential's Ranger is a controller. Tonight he immobilized a foe (save ends) in the first round of combat...the mage dropped a zone power on it that did fire damage and it never saved to move out of the zone and burned to death...my son was very amused...

We leveled up tonight to level 3 so he retrained and dropped a feat that gave him +2 Nature, Perception and Init in exchange for Sneak of the Shadows...giving the party someone trained in Thievery and at least one attack of "striker" level damage (1d10+2d6+5) per encounter...

The knight is a defender with a little bit of damage dealing capabilities. He dropped toughness (5 hp) for Warlord...so he has a little less hp in exchange for one heal per day that will do X+1d6 that he can share with party members...seems a fair trade...in a recent fight the mage was dropped to 0 hp and no one could heal him to get him back in the fight...so this will add that capability.

We'll give it a try to see how it goes...neither character has any attack powers to swap because of the way essentials characters work but they do have some utils...and the Paragon Paths may make some interesting characters.

...oh...and I AM playing a DM run character...It is just me and my son in this game. It's just for him to learn to play (and eventually DM).

The other group is playing PHB 1 and 2 characters that are multiclassed...they may have more opportunities to swap powers.

I do agree...so far the MC rules seem timid. But since I'm still fairly new to 4e I'd like to stick to the rules as written as much as possible to see how they work...

 

[Dice4Hire]

In my games, I am the strongest multi-classer. Sometimes people take the basic feat, for the skill and the extra ability, and a few will go for a PP based on the class. But power swapping is jsut too hard, unless you are a fighter/barbarian/warden or the like. They can do it prety well, and can build up some terrible combinations.

But it is practically unheard of in my games.

 

[Dead Scribe]

My experience with multiclassing is that it's not really multiclassing as conceived of in previous editions. That type of multiclassing doesn't really exist in 4e. It disappointed me three years ago when the game came out, but now it doesn't even seem necessary. Why would you need to be a fighter/mage when we now have many options for arcanists who dabble in melee (swordmage, spellsword, hexblade, and even bard and sorcerer) in every role? Is there a strong need for a fighter/cleric or fighter/rogue when those classes are already quite competent in melee? The existing classes already cover a lot of bases.

Like most I don't see the power-swap feats as particularly useful. If your ranger wants to cover traditional thieving duties, just training in Stealth and Thievery should be enough to cover the concept. If you really want some of the rogue's stealth utility powers, then maybe a power swap feat or two is worth it. But at some point, if your character wants that many rogue powers, perhaps they should consider just being a rogue. And if they truly want a split between two classes, then the Hybrid options fit the bill.

I'm not saying that the multiclass feats are totally useless. I just see them as condiments. A wizard with a few assassin feats is still a wizard, but he's picked up a few funny tricks. He is not a wizard/assassin. I think that's ok; it works fine. Multiclassing as it once was might not really be necessary anymore.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Multiclassing as it once was might not really be necessary anymore.

Personally, I'd prefer to have the option.