Quasqueton
First Post
At 12th level clerics and wizards can have at least 3 dimensional anchors each prepared for a fight.
Quasqueton
Quasqueton
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Musings on Sunday's session
- Thread starter hong
- Start date
Geoff Watson said:
Hmm. That is true, but SLA's do require concentration just like a spell, which means an action can be readied to interrupt them. It also means that grappling's not a bad option either, as long as the ghaele doesn't have Combat Reflexes (the one in the MM doesn't).
re
Hong,
You really should include a few counters to any given spell, especially one as frustrating and important as Teleport. Not including Dimensional Anchor while having Teleport in the game is unfair to the players, especially at higher level when Teleport becomes so prevalent.
On the other hand, there is more than one way to foil a given spell. For example, you can think up your own counters. Rather than incorporate Dimensional Anchor spells, you could include Dimensional Tracking spells that follow the astral path of the Teleport and give the players the location of the enemy. A divination foil to Teleport might work better as a counter if you don't want the enemies to always be anchored and unable to use Teleport.
Hong,
You really should include a few counters to any given spell, especially one as frustrating and important as Teleport. Not including Dimensional Anchor while having Teleport in the game is unfair to the players, especially at higher level when Teleport becomes so prevalent.
On the other hand, there is more than one way to foil a given spell. For example, you can think up your own counters. Rather than incorporate Dimensional Anchor spells, you could include Dimensional Tracking spells that follow the astral path of the Teleport and give the players the location of the enemy. A divination foil to Teleport might work better as a counter if you don't want the enemies to always be anchored and unable to use Teleport.
jayaint
First Post
This may seem like just as bad of a hack as adding spells, but what if teleporting suddenly became bad for everyone's health? What if teleporting caused some sort of ability or level damage, or even a solid handful of d6's of regular damage. There are any number of reasons as to why this might be happening: some HIGH level mage in the region might have distorted the teleportation-plane with an errant epic level spell, some sort of creature preys on energy that is released upon the casting/travelling, ninjas are taking over, whatever.
Just my 2 broken cents.
Just my 2 broken cents.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
hong said:
I just banned Dimension Door, Teleport, and any effect that restores lost hit points from my campaign.
-Hong "There's not much left" Ooi.
Tuzenbach
First Post
S'mon said:It didn't occur to any of the PCs in all those hours to _grapple_ her?
You'd be surprised how many PCs never take it upon themselves to get familiar with the whole concept of grappling/pummeling/overbearing. Why? Because they're too fixated with how many times per round they can use their +4 frost brand. Because it's too hard to grapple in full plate mail. Because if you're grappling, you're not casting a REALLY POWERFUL SPELL. LoL! Too many PCs focus on their weapon's without realizing that they, themselves, have the potential to be the MOST POWERFUL WEAPON in the game! How many spellcasters can cast spells while being grappled? I thought as much! LoL!
Klaus
First Post
Here are some of the things I try to do to avoid these game downers (and there's nothing I hate like a game downer):
- NPCs healing in mid-combat: Unless it's a "heal" spell, at most it buys the NPC a couple more rounds, so my NPCs tend to favor inflicting damage and/or incapacitating PCs to get a breather.
- Super-Defense: I try to convey to the PCs _why_ the attack failed. If it's Spell Resistance, I describe to the casting PC that he/she feels an almost tangible barrier protecting the creature, like pressing your finger upon armored skin. _Then_ I ask for the caster level check. If the PC in question has a reasonably good chance at beating the SR, I say that the spell _almost_ breached the defenses before collapsing, so the PC feels encouraged to try again. Ditto for Damage Reduction.
- Teleporting foes: This can be a MAJOR bummer, and it's one of the reasons I liked the "Squaring the Circle" adventure in the Planescape: Hellbound boxed set, where you can play an active part in stripping the fiends of their teleporting powers. Here are two suggestions on that:
1) Bring back Dimensional Anchor. Drawing sigils on the ground to trap demons is a staple in fantastic literature.
2) Track the Teleporter. Teleports and Dimension Doors (and pretty much all dimensional travel) leave behind residue energies from the spell that linked two different places for a short time. With a successful Spellcraft check (say 20+spell level+foe's Int modifier+2 for every round after the teleport) a spellcaster can figure out just where the enemy went (in broad terms), and a specially tailored teleport of the same level or higher, if cast on the same spot (within 1 minute of the enemy's teleport), can take the caster (and friends) to the general vicinity of their enemy.
- NPCs healing in mid-combat: Unless it's a "heal" spell, at most it buys the NPC a couple more rounds, so my NPCs tend to favor inflicting damage and/or incapacitating PCs to get a breather.
- Super-Defense: I try to convey to the PCs _why_ the attack failed. If it's Spell Resistance, I describe to the casting PC that he/she feels an almost tangible barrier protecting the creature, like pressing your finger upon armored skin. _Then_ I ask for the caster level check. If the PC in question has a reasonably good chance at beating the SR, I say that the spell _almost_ breached the defenses before collapsing, so the PC feels encouraged to try again. Ditto for Damage Reduction.
- Teleporting foes: This can be a MAJOR bummer, and it's one of the reasons I liked the "Squaring the Circle" adventure in the Planescape: Hellbound boxed set, where you can play an active part in stripping the fiends of their teleporting powers. Here are two suggestions on that:
1) Bring back Dimensional Anchor. Drawing sigils on the ground to trap demons is a staple in fantastic literature.
2) Track the Teleporter. Teleports and Dimension Doors (and pretty much all dimensional travel) leave behind residue energies from the spell that linked two different places for a short time. With a successful Spellcraft check (say 20+spell level+foe's Int modifier+2 for every round after the teleport) a spellcaster can figure out just where the enemy went (in broad terms), and a specially tailored teleport of the same level or higher, if cast on the same spot (within 1 minute of the enemy's teleport), can take the caster (and friends) to the general vicinity of their enemy.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Tuzenbach said:
Grappling/Pummeling/Overbearing?
My god, I knew we shouldn't have tried that slingshot-around-the-sun maneuver! We've been catapulted back to 1978!
-Hyp.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
I think your problem here is not so much that it was a long combat.
It was a long dull combat.
Basically there weren't really any counters to anything that the creature had
Noone could hurt it.
Noone could stop it from hurting them
Noone could stop it from running away when they finally did hurt it.
Noone likes an undefeatable tactic. By removing every counter to spell-like dimension door, you've made it an unbeatable tactic.
Reverse this somehow and all (some?) will be well.
It was a long dull combat.
Basically there weren't really any counters to anything that the creature had
Noone could hurt it.
Noone could stop it from hurting them
Noone could stop it from running away when they finally did hurt it.
Noone likes an undefeatable tactic. By removing every counter to spell-like dimension door, you've made it an unbeatable tactic.
Reverse this somehow and all (some?) will be well.
Whitey purloins a quote, but it's quite applicable here.
Small minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideals. Or in D&D:
Average PCs fight monsters. Good PCs fight because of events. Great PCs fight because of ideals.
The party just sent a fallen angel back home cryin' to mommy. That's no small accomplishment. From a metagame standpoint, they didn't do all that much - XPs perhaps, but no lewt or chance to cavort around taunting the corpse. From a greater metagame standpoint, this unhittable incarnate evil just got served a heaping spoonful of good and apparently doesn't have the stomach for it. It is likely welcome to another such serving should it muster the courage to return - and if it's called rather than summoned it could well be expunged forever. Good just booted bad to the curb.
Moral victory? Sure. Do it right and they're all moral victories.
Small minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideals. Or in D&D:
Average PCs fight monsters. Good PCs fight because of events. Great PCs fight because of ideals.
The party just sent a fallen angel back home cryin' to mommy. That's no small accomplishment. From a metagame standpoint, they didn't do all that much - XPs perhaps, but no lewt or chance to cavort around taunting the corpse. From a greater metagame standpoint, this unhittable incarnate evil just got served a heaping spoonful of good and apparently doesn't have the stomach for it. It is likely welcome to another such serving should it muster the courage to return - and if it's called rather than summoned it could well be expunged forever. Good just booted bad to the curb.
Moral victory? Sure. Do it right and they're all moral victories.
