Must every issue of Dragon have an overbearing theme?

[Desdichado]

You could just not read the threads that seem like they will annoy you, or you could find a new BB to frequent. Those are just two ideas off the top of my head to reduce your frustration with the lack of original content on this BB

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I was frustrated or annoyed. You, Flexor, though, often push the annoying line further out because you carry a very conservative gaming line and constantly bitch about stuff you don't like. You are the one around here that I've often thought to myself should look for another BB to frequent: preferably one about OD&D or 1e.

However, as I said, in this case, I think it's silly that every month someone (and it's usually someone from the same small group of someones) says exactly the same thing about Dragon. It accomplishes very little, usually, except to drag out half a dozen or so like-minded people and an equal amount (or more) of folks who like Dragon the way it is (although they never like the Shannara issue) and find the themes useful. These never accomplish anything because it seems very few people actually don't like the themes, or at least don't like them enough to complain about them. I suspect most people are indifferent. Personally, I like themes as long as they're not "overbearing" which they rarely are. However, I'd probably say that the epic level issue is a bit overbearing: there's just too much of it, and since I have no issue whatsoever in epic level play, it makes the magazine much less interesting to me.

However, that's the price you pay with themes. Some are hit some are miss. I can accept that and allow that occasionally there will be themes I really don't like (like epic) and more often themes I really do like. And in general, the themes aren't really "overbearing" as you claim: there's a lot of good articles on non-theme stuff every month. This latest may be a bit of an exception in that regard: except for the new planetouched races I didn't find anything much that I liked.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Ive been constructive several times. I am sick and tired of having to bitch slap people around here like you who just whine in responce.

TO put it bluntly the Epic Level advertisement issue of Dragon is a complete job of waste if you dont plan on buying the ELH and running with it. You cannot easily use the material in a standard level campaign simply because the items, feats, etc are just too overpowered. Sure you could use them as ocassional boss monster but there is only so much you can do this before your players get irritated with it.

The Stronghold edition was only slightly more useful. The latest Dragon issue (litterally the one about Dragons) was an interesting read in spots but 4 different Prc's for hunting dragons? Talk about excessive fluff that will never get used.

That's a simple rebuttal. I tried to point out the problems about your complaints and where I think the objectivity fails. A topic discussed without objectivity and without opposing point-of-view is very unlikely to lend a useful outcome. The only useful point of discussing something is to reach a satisfactory answer or conclusion as close to the actual truth as possible - but at least an answer to which the majority of people involved in it can relate positively.

I understand that it's in the human nature to vent our frustrations every now and then - but being constructive is the road ahead. To solve or accept a problem, you have to address the situation that actually exists and weigh all facts objectively if you are really trying to accomplish something else than merely ranting. I'm not really trying to keep you from ranting - I'm merely pointing out that I think you should find another approach if you want to improve your stance or change anything. Having an opinion is every man's right, but this very luxury also means that we have to accept that what we want is not always what the majority wants and then move on instead of whipping the same old horse.

-Zarrock

 

[Desdichado]

Bitch-slapping people who whine...

Anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Nope, you just need to look in the mirror. I am on this thread talkign about the topic of the thread. You and a few others are merely whining about the thread and why its another talking about the same thing.

Bitch-slapping people who whine...

Anyone besides me seeing the irony here?

 

[Desdichado]

Good one, Doc. You really got me there.

Oh, and you also missed most of the replies in the thread, I gather, since you seem ignorant of their contents. Apparently all you want this thread to be is folks that agree with you?

 

[Wolfen Priest]

I just want to say to Jesse, that I still buy the magazine almost every month (off the rack), and I don't think themes per se are always a bad thing.

I do think it's safe to say at this point you (at Dragon) should throw out the fiction section for something more useful to gamers. Everyone I've ever heard on this subject agrees with me on this. It's a waste of space; If I want fiction, I'll read a book.

Secondly, and this might help more, I think the ELH and Stronghold Builder's issues were fine, but they would have been *SO* much more useful if they came out a little while *AFTER* the product they were trying to sell.

I certainly have no interest in reading info related to a product that I don't even have the option of buying yet. I have no idea if I would buy either of them anyway, but I'm much more likely to "impulse buy" one of them if, after reading Dragon, I can run out to my game shop and pick one up the next day.

 

[Katerek]

ACTUALLY RELATED TO THREAD TOPIC

The themes in Dragon have been largely useful to me, but that is because I am a total marketing whore and a slave to mass advertising, so I buy everything WoTC publishes (except for novels).

I do agree though that the themes could be toned down a bit. Dedicate more of the magazine to "crunchy bits". For my dollar, I want more crunch and less fluff.

Also, if Dragon never published another short story in it's pages ever again, my personal existence would be all the better for it, but hey, I am just one guy.

My favorite parts concerning new product tie-ins are the count downs. When something new comes out and then all of sudden there is supplemental stuff in dragon the first thing in my head is "Why didn't they just put it in the supplement?"

Basically, I buy dragon because of the games I play; I do not buy the games I play because of Dragon. Does that make sense?

Today's gamer is far more savvy than we were a few years ago. I would be willing to wager that if you removed ALL WoTC advertisements, other than preview articles and whatnot, from the pages of dragon, you would notice almost no difference in sales of said item.

We have the internet baby. There isn't a single thing that is published that I haven't known about for AT LEAST two months when I finally hear mention of it in Dragon.

You want focus? Do a pulse check and find out who reads the magazine. Send out a questionaire to your subscribers and offer a free issue or something. Hell, offer a free annual to any one that mails the questionaire back to you if they pick it up as a product insert. You will get feedback then.

I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Yeah, but Psion, all of the Dragons since 3e came out have had themes. Was the Fighter theme that first Fall all right?

For the record, I'm okay for the themes, except for Shannara. That was a big, "Huh?!?"

I too hate themes... or at least, the depth to which the Dragon clefts to them over the last year. A year ago I felt that Dragon was a useful, enjoyable read. I can't say that any more.

I blame it PRIMARILY on themes.

The major problem with themes being presented so strongly is that if the theme doesn't interest you, you are out of luck.

But it is worse than that. It seems to me that even if I like an issue's theme, I am finding large parts of the issue useless. Now to some extent this is to be expect, but sometimes, it seems to me as if they are scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill out the overly-generous "theme" quota.

 

[Chairman_Kaga]

The whole argument is relative. Some hate it, some don't, some don't care.

Personally, I hate it. The ELH handbook issue was a complete waste for me and my group to use but one example of many. I am letting my subscription lapse at the end of the year. I'll just check each issue individually.

I may spend more per issue, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[Quickbeam]

What makes a theme "overbearing?"

Just so that no one takes this question the wrong way -- we work hard to give D&D players what they want to see, and the answer to this question matters to the editorial staff when we're planning future issues.

I have no doubt that your entire staff works very hard every month to produce a magazine that ALL gamers will love, enjoy, use, and frequently reflect back on. The reality (and you know this all too well) is that you can't please eveyone all the time. For my part, I rather prefer the themed issues overall. Certainly there have been issues which I didn't much enjoy or find very useful, but you're never gonna please anyone with every single issue.

To answer your question, a theme is overbearing if:
a) There is little content beyond the theme in any meaningful way. If the upcoming Drow issue is entirely void of anything but dark elf related material, then perhaps the theme could be considered a bit overbearing.
b) Someone just doesn't like the central focus of a given issue.

My guess, is that much of the griping you hear about the themed issues stems from individuals who just don't like a given issue's primary topic. Of course, there will always be people who prefer the idea of Dragon presenting a universe of arrayed info in each issue, but I just don't see that being very successful.