Must we use Int to modify skill points?

[DWARF]

I had a thought in a game recently, wondered if anyone else has.

Say we have a fighter with 10 Int. He learns to Climb and Jump pretty well. Now, his brother also trains as a fighter, but has an Int of 12, so learns to Climb, Jump and Swim. Now, these 2 guys are raised almost identically, but because one is "smarter" he can train more physical skills than his brother?

...huh?

It might make sense that someone smarter can learn more when it comes to book learning; except that's handled by Knowledge skills and the like being modified by Int bonus. So, is modifying skills by Int the right way to go, and if not, what kind of variants and house rules are there?

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

You have a good point there. While not necessarily the most realistic way to apply skill points to the more physical abilities, it would be difficult to come up with a reasonable compromise. While the skills in question are generally strength based, I'd say their practice would have more to do with endurance. I would consider a variant where intelligence and constitution each provided a bonus (possibly 1/2 mod, or choice of either/or) to skill points, but each was only applicable to the abilities to which they could realistically be applied. Sound fair?

 

[Sigurd]

It's also a question of game balance

The rules have to benefit a well rounded character. Intelligence is a source of magic and skill points -- this is the payoff for smart characters. Many smart characters arent nimble or tough characters but they make the best teachers and have the greatest insight into learning.

Characters get bonuses on execution for Dexterity and Strength for skills but they shouldn't get learning bonuses. If you must explain the abstraction think of it as an intelligent character has better life management and awareness. He/she can make more useful time to comprehend more in a shorter time and retain it. The gorrilla character may have natural bonuses when climbing but lacks the self discipline to split his focus productively over climbing and fishing and swordplay and, and, and..... A gorilla's learning bonus for climbing will probably not make him a better climber so much as it creates a second skill pool that makes him more rounded - inspite of his low intelligence.

Str & Dex effectively give levels of ability in their pluses - these just dont grow. Only greater Intellegence allows one to amass and retain skills. This is a primary element of the game that is already reduced by feats and background bonuses. If you reduce it further you artificially balance unbalanced characters.

Str & Dex have an immediate combat & survival benefit that is dominant in the game. To derive skill points from them would unbalance the game and reduce the value of intelligence.


Sigurd

 

[CRGreathouse]

Frankly it does make sense to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The smarter fighter doesn't need to train as long swimming because it's easier for him to remember the strokes and he can concentrate more on his form while swimming. His brother has to practice longer just to get the basics the smarter one picked up quickly.

Similarly, he learns various climbing forms faster and such.

If you like, you can think of Int as being all parts of the brain, including the cerebellum, where repetitive tasks are learned and perfected.

 

[EvilGM]

At 1st level, I give bonus skill points for every ability score bonus to use on skills with that key ability.

Strength: Climb, Jump, Swim
Dexterity: Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Sleight of Hand, Tumble, Use Rope
Constitution: Concentration
Intelligence: Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge (any), Search, Spellcraft
Wisdom: Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival
Charisma: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, Use Magic Device

So, if you have a 14 Strength (+2) you would receive 2 skill points at 1st level to put into Climb, Jump, or Swim. These bonus skill points can be used on any skill at the rate of 1 rank = 1 point.

I made this change to give the characters a few more skill points and a wider variety of initial skills.

Oh I use 30 point buy. There are not retroactive changes to this if ability scores increase.

 

[DreamChaser]

Say we have a fighter with 10 Int. He learns to Climb and Jump pretty well. Now, his brother also trains as a fighter, but has an Int of 12, so learns to Climb, Jump and Swim. Now, these 2 guys are raised almost identically, but because one is "smarter" he can train more physical skills than his brother?

Yeah, but assuming that they are equally strong, both well do well fairly well, and don't really need any ranks in any of them. "Learning" is always Intelligence based.

If both have a Strength of 18 (+4) they have the following athletic ABILITIES(bonus based just on Strength):
Climb +4
Jump +4
Swim +4
If they both train in all three (LEARNING to use their ABILITY better) 10-boy will have something that looks like this at first (2nd, 3rd, 4th) level:
Climb +7 (+7, +8, +9)
Jump +7 (+8, +8, +9)
Swim +6 (+7, +8, +8)

while 12-boy will have
Climb +8 (+9, +10, +11)
Jump +8 (+9, +10, +11)
Swim +8 (+9, +10, +11)

But, 10-boy could choose to be as good as 11-boy in 1 or 2 of the skills but because 12-boy is smarter, he will aways be less limited.

DC

 

[DreamChaser]

Constitution: Concentration
I made this change to give the characters a few more skill points and a wider variety of initial skills.

So barbarians and fighters often have 3-4 ranks of Concentration that they can do nothering with. Thats funny.

DC

 

[the Jester]

So barbarians and fighters often have 3-4 ranks of Concentration that they can do nothering with. Thats funny.

DC

Well, they can stay awake on watch with it. (That seems like a logical 'fighter' use of Concentration, n'est-ce pas?)

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The system makes sense to me as well. Intelligence is a fundamental part of learning to adapt and thrive in your environment.

A person with a higher Int score will be better able to learn new things and improve themselves than someone who is not as intelligent, all other things being equal.

 

[Planesdragon]

Now, these 2 guys are raised almost identically, but because one is "smarter" he can train more physical skills than his brother?

...huh?

That does make sense. People who are smarter do learn more skills, and are able to gain a much wider skill-set in the same amount of time. Or to put it another way, smarter people get more benefit from the same experiences.

From a game-design perspective, the only reason this is a "bad thing" is that it lets wizards get a lot of skill points with only one ability. Which, in and of itself, isn't that bad a thing.

Hmm....