Mutants & Masterminds Questions

[Villano]

I've never really gotten a chance to play M&M (I was involved in 2 play-by-post games that ended before they even really began), but I do enjoy messing around and creating PCs.

Anyway, I'm having a little trouble understanding how Alternate Powers work. I'm working on a wire-fu kung-fu master. His main power is a Penetrating Strike. I also want to add another ability like Nauseate or Paralyze as an AP to Strike. Now, if my Strike has an Accurate power feat, will my AP also have that attack bonus or do I need to take it separately?

Also, keeping up the idea of a martial arts master, I want to add Deflect so that he can knock slow projectiles out of the air. Could I add Deflect as an AP to Strike or does it need to be a separate power?

That last question also applies to a device (like a swordsman who strikes and deflects with his weapon).

 

[mikelaff]

I've never really seen an M+M thread take off here.
You might have better luck posting at the M+M forum

I've never really gotten a chance to play M&M (I was involved in 2 play-by-post games that ended before they even really began), but I do enjoy messing around and creating PCs.

Anyway, I'm having a little trouble understanding how Alternate Powers work. I'm working on a wire-fu kung-fu master. His main power is a Penetrating Strike. I also want to add another ability like Nauseate or Paralyze as an AP to Strike. Now, if my Strike has an Accurate power feat, will my AP also have that attack bonus or do I need to take it separately?

Also, keeping up the idea of a martial arts master, I want to add Deflect so that he can knock slow projectiles out of the air. Could I add Deflect as an AP to Strike or does it need to be a separate power?

That last question also applies to a device (like a swordsman who strikes and deflects with his weapon).

 

[Piratecat]

I've never really gotten a chance to play M&M (I was involved in 2 play-by-post games that ended before they even really began), but I do enjoy messing around and creating PCs.

Anyway, I'm having a little trouble understanding how Alternate Powers work. I'm working on a wire-fu kung-fu master. His main power is a Penetrating Strike. I also want to add another ability like Nauseate or Paralyze as an AP to Strike. Now, if my Strike has an Accurate power feat, will my AP also have that attack bonus or do I need to take it separately?

Also, keeping up the idea of a martial arts master, I want to add Deflect so that he can knock slow projectiles out of the air. Could I add Deflect as an AP to Strike or does it need to be a separate power?

That last question also applies to a device (like a swordsman who strikes and deflects with his weapon).

My books are at home, so I can't quote you pages. You'll want to go look up "container" in the index, though, and read that first. It explains how alternate powers work.

Basically, you total up the cost of the power and the extra, without feats. As an example, 10 ranks of a [2 point base power+1 point extra] would give you 30 points to play with. Your alternate power can't be done at the same time as the primary power (like a gun that shoots a heat OR a freeze ray). Then you would add the one point feat for "alternate power" onto the base cost.

I'm not sure off the top of my head how multiple alternate powers work.

 

[takyris]

I've never really gotten a chance to play M&M (I was involved in 2 play-by-post games that ended before they even really began), but I do enjoy messing around and creating PCs.

Anyway, I'm having a little trouble understanding how Alternate Powers work. I'm working on a wire-fu kung-fu master. His main power is a Penetrating Strike. I also want to add another ability like Nauseate or Paralyze as an AP to Strike. Now, if my Strike has an Accurate power feat, will my AP also have that attack bonus or do I need to take it separately?

Okay, so right now, you've got (I'm doing 10 ranks, just for ease):

Strike 10 (Extra: Penetrating, +1)
:: 20 points

If you want to get an alternate power, you can do that easily:

Alternate Power: Paralyze 10
:: 1 point


Your total is 21 points.

If your original power is:

Strike 10 (Extra: Penetrating, +1)
Accurate Attack 2 (Strike)
:: 22 points

Then your Alternate Power gives you 22 points, not 20 points, to spend:

Alternate Power: Paralyze 10
Accurate Attack 2 (Paralyze)
:: 1 point (Alternate Power of a 22-point power)

Does that make sense? The power you're Alternate-Power-ing on includes any power feats that make sense for that power (at the GM's discretion, of course -- the balance issue of your build is that you're buying Accurate Attack on one power, and then using Alternate Power to get the attack bonus on all the attacks in your array, which sort of means you're getting a high attack bonus for the price of a low attack bonus).

So it's rules-legal but a little shaky in terms of the spirit of things.

Also, keeping up the idea of a martial arts master, I want to add Deflect so that he can knock slow projectiles out of the air. Could I add Deflect as an AP to Strike or does it need to be a separate power?

That last question also applies to a device (like a swordsman who strikes and deflects with his weapon).

You can add it as an Alternate Power, but if you do that, then you have to decide whether you're striking or deflecting on any given round. Only one aspect of an Array (a set of alternate powers) is on at any given time. For instance:

Force Blaster Man

Blast 10
AP: Flight 10
AP: Deflect 10

Total Points: 22

This guy can fly, or throw energy blasts, or deflect incoming attacks, but he can only do one of those three things per round. You essentially have a dial that can be tuned to "Fly", "Blast", or "Deflect", and you can only change that setting once per round.

On the other hand:

Force Blaster Man Beta

Blast 10
Flight 10
Deflect 10 (2-point version)

Total Points: 60

This guy can blast guys while flying and then deflect something immediately afterward, but he costs nearly three times as much.

That's the benefit, and that's the cost.

 

[Piratecat]

Tacky, looking at that container formula, it looked like feats weren't included in the cost that you pull the AP out of. Am I wrong about that?

 

[Villano]

Tacky, looking at that container formula, it looked like feats weren't included in the cost that you pull the AP out of. Am I wrong about that?

I have the M&M 2nd Ed and I don't see a listing for "container". But, reading the AP section of the feats, it does look like you are right that the feats don't add to the cost of the AP.

What I was wondering was, since I'm using the same thing to strike or paralyze (i.e., my fist), if that attack bonus is used for the AP. The more I'm looking at it, the more I'm thinking that it may be better to take an Attack Focus: Melee feat that would cover both.

I'm still confused about the use of Deflect as an AP, though. When you Deflect, you block (but instead of blocking melee attacks, you block ranged). According to the "blocking" definition:

[snip]Instead of attacking, you can choose to actively defend yourself against incoming melee attacks for the round. To block an attack, make an attack roll against your opponent's attack roll.[/snip]

Since I have to give up my attack in order to deflect, I'm not sure if I can make Deflect my AP of an attack power. In other words, if I have to give up my Strike in order to Deflect, can I even make Deflect an AP of Strike?

I'm not sure I'm explaining it clearly, but I hope you can see what I mean.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Make your attack power and your Deflect power Dynamic.

What this does is makes your attack power into a variable point array which allows you to move power points from your main power to your deflect DAP which enables you to do both during a round.

For instance:

Blast 5: 2pp/rank (PF: Dynamic) [24pp]
DAP: Deflect 2 (All ranged)
AP: Dazzle 5

In this array, you have 21 power points to distribute between your Deflect Power AND your Blast power each round, assuming you have not used Dazzle and you do not plan on using Dazzle. This is because the alternate powers are functionally compatible with dynamic powers. ,So as you can tell, this array isn't optimal, however in some cases it would make sense.

 

[takyris]

Tacky, looking at that container formula, it looked like feats weren't included in the cost that you pull the AP out of. Am I wrong about that?

Which formula? I was trying to write it both ways, and it's possible (nay, probable) that I wrote it badly:

The options he seems to be asking for is:

Power: AccuStrike (Costs 22 points) (
Strike 10 (Extra: Penetrating) - 20 points
Accurate Attack (Strike) 2 - 2 points )

Alternate Power on AccuStrike: AccuBlast: (
Blast 10 - 20 points
Accurate Attack (Blast) 2 - 2 points)

Total Cost: 22 points (AccuStrike) + 1 (Alternate Power) = 23 points

Personally, I'd prefer to see those Accurate Power Feats bought separately, because otherwise my powergaming players would most certainly do something like:

Hero Guy

BAB: 0

(Energy Blast 10 - 20 points
Accurate 8 - 8 points)

Alternate Powers: (Paralyze with Accurate), (Stun with Accurate), (Snare with Accurate), and so on... and you spent points on Accurate once and got it for everything in the array, which, for someone with all their powers in one array, means they got it pretty cheaply relative to the guy who actually bought everything up legal-like.

As I recall, Ultimate Power had some guidelines as to which power feats should apply to an overall array and which can be bought as part of the power that gets alternated.

It's late and I'm tired, though.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Since I have to give up my attack in order to deflect, I'm not sure if I can make Deflect my AP of an attack power. In other words, if I have to give up my Strike in order to Deflect, can I even make Deflect an AP of Strike?

I'm not sure I'm explaining it clearly, but I hope you can see what I mean.

When it says give up your attack, it means your attack action (even without strike you could always attack with your Strength bonus for damage).

So yes, you can have deflect as an AP of Strike.

 

[Villano]

When it says give up your attack, it means your attack action (even without strike you could always attack with your Strength bonus for damage).

So yes, you can have deflect as an AP of Strike.

Okay, I see what you mean. Thanks.

Make your attack power and your Deflect power Dynamic.

What this does is makes your attack power into a variable point array which allows you to move power points from your main power to your deflect DAP which enables you to do both during a round.

For instance:

Blast 5: 2pp/rank (PF: Dynamic) [24pp]
DAP: Deflect 2 (All ranged)
AP: Dazzle 5

In this array, you have 21 power points to distribute between your Deflect Power AND your Blast power each round, assuming you have not used Dazzle and you do not plan on using Dazzle. This is because the alternate powers are functionally compatible with dynamic powers. ,So as you can tell, this array isn't optimal, however in some cases it would make sense.

I'm a little confuse on the math (how you got the 24pp cost). The way I'm reading the rules is: A Blast 5 at 2pp/rank would be 10pp, Dynamic feat 2pp, Dynamic AP Deflect 2pp, and AP Dazzle 1pp for 15 pp.