MW Weapons of odd materials...

[Tyrrell]

No, no difference between a Masterwork Adamant Greatsword and a "normal" Adamant one... Just like there's no real difference between normal and Masterwork leather armor!

I believe that the adamantine bonus would be nulified in an anti-magic field while the masterwork bonus would not be.

Also, I don't think the adamantine bonus adds to damage. I think it just adds to tohit.

I don't believe this is correct, but I'm eager to be proven wrong If i'm incorrect regarding your incorectness.

 

[Ravellion]

My understanding was that Mitheral and adamantite items were already Masterwork as it takes that skill to even work the mettle and so the bonus was already calculated.

You are correct. Regarding anti-magic fields: Adamantine will actually work there, since it's enhancement bonus is non magical.

Rav

 

[Steverooo]

Adamantine vs. Antimagic

I believe that the adamantine bonus would be nulified in an anti-magic field while the masterwork bonus would not be.

Nope, see the above-cited quote from the DMG. They give an example there of a +5 (magical) Adamantine sword being +2 in an Anti-Magic Field.

Also DMG:242 clearly states that Adamantine weapons have the +2 natural enhancement bonus to attacks and damage. The answers are all there, if you'll just go look'em up.

 

[Steverooo]

Please read it, again...

No difference other than a MW Adamantine Greatsword can be magiced and a normal adamantine greatsword cannot.

Please re-read the quote in the post just above yours... ALL Adamantine weapons are Masterwork!

Also, I don't think the adamantine bonus adds to damage. I think it just adds to tohit.

Again, DMG:242...

 

[Pax]

That's a fairly common interpretation. However, I believe it's wrong, based on the following excerpt from the OA online FAQ:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dastana and chahar-aina each have an armor check penalty of 1. What armor check penalties do masterwork versions of these items have? What armor check penalty would mithral versions of these items have?

The armor check penalty for any item of masterwork armor is lessened by 1. (See page 113 in the Player's Handbook.) A masterwork dastana or chahar-aina has an armor check penalty of 0.

Mithral lessens armor check penalties by 3. (See page 243 in the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.) The minimum armor check penalty is 0. The reduction for mithral and for masterwork stacks.
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(Note that the ACP reduction technically is not any sort of enhancement bonus, so should always stack.)

That's all well and fine for Oriental Adventures. But, here's a consideration from another source, closer to the heart of D&D itself -- Magic of Faerun, page 177:

Weapons and Armor
The special powers of these materials are nonmagical, and thus continue to function even in an area where magic does not. Any resistance granted by these materials does not stack.
Any item fashioned from one of these materials listed here is treated as a masterwork item, except that the extra cost is as listed for the material. The masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor. The market price modifier always refers to teh weight of a normal (steel) object, not hte objects weight in unusual metal.

And that is more in keeping with the rule as I recall it form the DMG (which is not to hand ATM).

 

[Conaill]

Any item fashioned from one of these materials listed here is treated as a masterwork item, except that the extra cost is as listed for the material.

AAAAARRRGGHHH!!!

Can't these idiots get anything consistent?! I always considered the DMG wording to mean that these special materials count as MW only with regard to creation times (except for Darkwood, which explicitly states that those items are considered MW!) The MaoF quote seems to say they are MW except for three major exceptions. (BTW, I do NOT think the MaoF quote is any more relevant to "standard" D&D that the OA FAQ)

Allright, I will now concede that this issue is hopelessly muddled until we get a explicit clarification from "higher up" (i.e. the Sage, or preferably the revised core rulebooks). All you DM's out there: feel free to houserule this one however you want without feeling guilty about "deviating from The Rules".

To further muddle the waters a little, here's a quote I just found from Monte Cook on this issue:

We went round and round on masterwork mithral and adamantine ourselves. Skip Williams would know the official answer, but I believe what we decided was this:

You can indeed make masterwork mithral and adamantine items, but they are not automatically masterwork.

And here's an old quote from Sean Reynolds from the old ENWorld Combat page:

The consensus of people in-house is that if you're paying the extra cost for a mithral or adamantine weapon, it should count as masterwork quality. However, mithral armors already take into account the masterwork armor bonus, and adamantine's nonmagical enhancement bonus already overlaps any masterwork bonus, so it doesn't affect their stats (it just means there are no "crappy" mithral or adamantine items that can't be made magical).

 

[Pax]

Allright, I will now concede that this issue is hopelessly muddled until we get a explicit clarification from "higher up" (i.e. the Sage, or preferably the revised core rulebooks). All you DM's out there: feel free to houserule this one however you want without feeling guilty about "deviating from The Rules".

My own houserule is: MW stacks with magic, with material, with anything. Magic stacks with material ( a +1 Adamantine Sword gets a net of +3 to hit and damage -- +1 enhancement, and +2 (renamed) "material". a MASTERWORK magical adamantine longsword would get +4 attack and _3 damage.

I figure if you pay FOR it you shoudl get all the bennies FROM it.

It also means, IMC the PC's have to do more than just sift through the enemies' gear looking only for the MW items to cast "detect magic" at. ANY old sword might be magical ... heh.

 

[Bastoche]

We house ruled that special material gave bonus to damage and MW to hit. So a MW adamantite longsword would be like the good ole "high quality" weapon from 2E.

 

[Steverooo]

We never changed... just added

In our games, we added "Masterwork" items, but still do things the old, 1e way... +1/+1 to-hit/damage items, as well as +2/+2, can be made from normal steel, etc. +3 weapons and armor are steel alloyed from meteoric iron. +4 are pure meteoric iron or mithril-alloyed steel. +5 are pure mithril or adamantine-allowed steel. +6 are pure adamant. +7 is forged of "soul stuff". Of course, the 3e rules disallowed +6 and higher, and also destroyed the pricing on everything else!

 

[Zhure]

From the SRD:
"Adamantine: Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical areas, this ultrahard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor based on how much of the material is used. Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural enhancement bonus to attack and damage. Armor fashioned from adamantine has a natural enhancement bonus to AC. These bonuses do not stack with any other enhancement bonuses. Weapons and armor fashioned from adamantine are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor."


"Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor."

That seems pretty clear.