D&D 3E/3.5 My 3.5 House Rules Codex – Final

[nonsi256]

So that means that monsters without class levels have max hp, right?

Yes.

I am slowly digesting the base classes and the feat section. I am actually building 10th level characters to read and understand both of them.

While you're at it, don't ignore entries #4 and #5. All the elements in my HR are there to maintain as mush balance between the characters as possible (among many other reasons), so have them try not to miss out too much on the options available to them.

Ok that seems to be the case, but on the same time players will still need some magic items to cut it out.
Now, I am wondering how much "some" will be.

This depends heavily on the expectations of all players and the power level you're aiming at.

Hopefully it will be fewer than 3.5 though...

This I guarantee.

 

[Malfi]

Hmm monsters having max hp is alarming, but its balanced by the fact they won't get their con modifiers on every hit dice.
That said this might result in unbalanced monsters since monsters without con mod (constructs ,undead) will become stronger while those with huge con modifiers will become weaker.
I am having some ideas on how to handle this, such as reducing/increasing cr or hit dice, but what would you propose?
I also have to say that this combined with the two new attributes makes me nervous about using monsters with your houserules.



Entry 5 was among the first i read thoroughly. The more I read them, it becomes obvious that your houserules are made to be very well balanced with one another.


"This depends heavily on the expectations of all players and the power level you're aiming at."

As I said I see them fighting monsters of tops their cr+2. My favorite ways to challenge the party are 4 waves encounters with crs equal to the party level, or 2 encounters with crs equal to the party level and then one equal to its level+2.
Ofcourse the plot will mostly determine how things go, but I am trying to showcase the power level I am aiming at.
I do understand that this is connected to the above issue, so it might not be so simple to answer.


Another question. I am having real trouble understanding how TWF works and how it affects flurry of blows. The example you give seem to contradict the text.
"Hitting with both weapons interchangeably equalizes the offhand's attack bonus to that of the primary hand (if you have Ambidexterity, otherwise, the offhand attack takes a -4 hit penalty), penalizing all attacks by -2 to hit.
By saving the offhand attack for last, you don't receive any penalties to your primary attack and you gain 1 extra attack at your second highest attack bonus.
A 20th level fighter with TWF and Ambidexterity that hold 2 small weapons thus has +18/+18 / +13/+13 / +8/+8. The same fighter, saving the extra attack for last, would have the following attack bonuses: +20/+15/+10/+5/+0 / +15 (or +11 without Ambidexterity).
With both methods, if you wield 2 separate weapons, you do not need to make a full round action to gain an offhand attack."


Lastly I think I noticed an "error".

Dodge AC progression
1/2 Ref-Save is applied as dodge AC, detracting ACP from all sources.

ACP should simply read AC, right?

 

[nonsi256]

Hmm monsters having max hp is alarming, but its balanced by the fact they won't get their con modifiers on every hit dice.
That said this might result in unbalanced monsters since monsters without con mod (constructs ,undead) will become stronger while those with huge con modifiers will become weaker.
I am having some ideas on how to handle this, such as reducing/increasing cr or hit dice, but what would you propose?

For starters, I once saw a suggestion of making undead HD d8 and make CHA the modifier (they got d12s to compensate for the CON loss, so maximized d8s would be quite reasonable).​

You could up the HD of opponents with radical CON to d12 to compensate.​

As for constructs – they’re meant to be unusually hardy. They’re machines afterall. They don't feel pain or fear (2 of many factors in the HP abstraction).


I also have to say that this combined with the two new attributes makes me nervous about using monsters with your houserules.

Could you elaboratre ?


Another question. I am having real trouble understanding how TWF works and how it affects flurry of blows. The example you give seem to contradict the text.

​

If I’m to provide any clarification, I need to know what you find that doesn’t add up, or which pieces of information you find to contradict one another.​

To make a long story short, an offhand weapon grants you a single extra combat action (applicable as either full round or standard action). You have the following options at your disposal:​

- Save that extra attack to the end of your attack sequence and by so not penalize your regular attacks.​

- Attack interchangeably ,paying -2 penalty on the primary attack to gain attack bonuses on secondary attacks.​

- Aid self (either offensively or defensively).​

A Monk is the only class in my HR that eventually gains 2 extra attacks (starting with -2 indicates interchangeability) – that’s because he fights with his entire body, not just his arms (and that’s only after 11 levels – well beyond anything recorded in RL history and maybe even folklore).​

Lastly I think I noticed an "error".
Dodge AC progression
1/2 Ref-Save is applied as dodge AC, detracting ACP from all sources.
ACP should simply read AC, right?

​

ACP = Armor Check Penalty.​

It’s in Appendix A: Legend (entry #8).​

 

[Malfi]

As for constructs – they’re meant to be unusually hardy. They’re machines afterall. They don't feel pain or fear (2 of many factors in the HP abstraction).

This really doesn't adress the issue that they will be stronger than what their cr indicates.
Thankfully their immunity to precision damage becoming 75% slightly helps the issue.
I am leaning towards increasing their cr by 1.

For starters, I once saw a suggestion of making undead HD d8 and make CHA the modifier (they got d12s to compensate for the CON loss, so maximized d8s would be quite reasonable).

I had actually read this part of your houserules when I posted the issue and it really helps. Still though they do gain 1,5 extra hp per hit dice plus their charimsa score. Corporeal undead with their 25% resistance to crits shouldn't be a problem, but the incorporeal ones will become stronger.

Another thingy: How about giving monsters with very big con modifiers free racial toughness feats? Maybe even change the rulling that for every size you are bigger than medium you can take toughness an extra time?


Could you elaborate ?

Just that I should come up with 2 new attributes for every monster.
Ofcourse you do say "1. It shouldn't be too difficult to compile the appropriate AGI according to a monster's given STR and DEX scores." So I was simply whiny right there.

If I’m to provide any clarification, I need to know what you find that doesn’t add up, or which pieces of information you find to contradict one another.


Lets say I have a character with +20 bab, two small weapons amphidexterity and TWF.
Because he has a weapon in his off hand he is treated as if wielding a medium weapon. So his full attack is +20/+15/+10/+5/+0

If I save the extra attack for last it becomes +20/+15/+10/+5/+0/+15. I understand this.

If I hit interchangeably this equalizes the offhand's attack bonus to that of the primary hand (if you have Ambidexterity, otherwise, the offhand attack takes a -4 hit penalty), penalizing all attacks by -2 to hit.
So I should get +18/+18/+13/+8/+3/-2 instead of +18/+18 / +13/+13 / +8/+8.

With both methods, if you wield 2 separate weapons, you do not need to make a full round action to gain an offhand attack.

So with a standard action you can make two attacks at your full attack bonus?

I am also kinda confused with full attacks.
You say with a full attack you also make a move action. Does this mean you can full attack with a standard action?


Monks are naturally ambidextrous TWF-ers. FoB simply improves TWF significantly. They don't stack.

How does it improve TWF? Do you mean it works exactly like the flurry of blows from the core rulebook but doesn't stack with TWF and amphidexterity?

 

[nonsi256]

I am leaning towards increasing their cr by 1.

Sounds reasonable to me​

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Corporeal undead with their 25% resistance to crits shouldn't be a problem, but the incorporeal ones will become stronger.

Then you could up their CR by 1 as well.​

​

Another thingy: How about giving monsters with very big con modifiers free racial toughness feats? Maybe even change the rulling that for every size you are bigger than medium you can take toughness an extra time?​

Let’s see.​

Each +10 CON-mod entitles a creature to take Toughness one more time.​

Each size category beyond medium grants Toughness as a bonus (free of charge).​

One thing that’s bothering me about Toughness: I’m contemplating removing the initial 3 HP, or make it applicable only once (the latter is kinda awkward so I’m leaning toward the former).



Just that I should come up with 2 new attributes for every monster.
Ofcourse you do say "1. It shouldn't be too difficult to compile the appropriate AGI according to a monster's given STR and DEX scores." So I was simply whiny right there.

Another option is to ignore the monster’s ability scores and make a leap of faith that the numbers would somehow add up. This would work fine as long as you don’t need to make ability checks.​

Usually I’m very picky at working out all the details, but unless a specific monster has a continuous role in your campaign, breaking it down to its fine details just so that the numbers don’t shift +/-1 on 2 or 3 stats just aint worth the effort (it will have no CR impact anyway).​

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So with a standard action you can make two attacks at your full attack bonus?

Let’s take ole’ Bob with his +20 BAB, two small weapons, ambidexterity and TWF (sans feats/stats/enhancements modifiers).​

He can either make it +20/+15 (make the 1st attack without “recalibrating” for his offhand and then add the other attack the best he can), or +18/+18 (attack with equilibrium on both sides).
Reminder: if he doesn't move during his standard action attack, he gains even more (see "Multiple Attacks and Movement")
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I am also kinda confused with full attacks.
You say with a full attack you also make a move action. Does this mean you can full attack with a standard action?

No, what I mean is that moving up to your speed doesn’t hinder your ability to make a full attack. You can integrate movement into your full attack.
You may now ask "then where does the move + standard breakdown vs. full attack take place?".
My answer would be that there are actions in the game other than actual movement (which you cannot take while you're busy attacking) that require a move action to perform.
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Monks are naturally ambidextrous TWF-ers. FoB simply improves TWF significantly. They don't stack.
How does it improve TWF?​

Let me rephrase: FoB IS an improved version of TWF with ambidexterity. It starts “just as” and improves as the Monk gains levels.​

To make good on his attack speed, a monk attacks interchangeably and:​

1. Eventually compromises less (5th) or not at all (9th) on his primary attack.​

2. Gains yet another attack (11th).​

 

[Malfi]

Thanks your answers pretty much covered every question I made, but one.

Lets say I have a character with +20 bab, two small weapons amphidexterity and TWF.
Because he has a weapon in his off hand he is treated as if wielding a medium weapon. So his full attack is +20/+15/+10/+5/+0

If I save the extra attack for last it becomes +20/+15/+10/+5/+0/+15. I understand this.

If I hit interchangeably this equalizes the offhand's attack bonus to that of the primary hand (if you have Ambidexterity, otherwise, the offhand attack takes a -4 hit penalty), penalizing all attacks by -2 to hit.
So I should get +18/+18/+13/+8/+3/-2 instead of +18/+18 / +13/+13 / +8/+8.


Basically I am kinda confused on how you attack interchangeably. Maybe you make one attack with offhand for every attack with the main hand and take -2 with all of them?
But then your full attack would look sth like this +18/+18+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2/-2.

 

[nonsi256]

Basically I am kinda confused on how you attack interchangeably. Maybe you make one attack with offhand for every attack with the main hand and take -2 with all of them?
But then your full attack would look sth like this +18/+18+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2/-2.

2 things to remember:
1. Only a single extra attack.
2. Interchangeability means equilibrium to both weapons (each offhand attack is just as solid as the primary attack that preceded it).

So basically, if you're to add but a single extra attack to the count (I never said you get an extra attack for each primary attack), you get a total of 6 attacks, so the sequence stops at the second +8.

Now take Quan, a 20th level Monk wielding 2 "small" [FONT=&quot]non-piercing[/FONT] weapons:

(Edit: the "non-piercing" part is irrelevant on a regular attack (disregard))

Putting aside FoB and special cases for a moment, he'd be entitled to one of the following sequences:
+15/+10/+5/+15
or
+13/+13/+8/+8
It's not too difficult to see how [+15/+15/+15/+10/+5] is way better.
This would also explain why monks prefer even quicker weapon combos (ideal pairs / a "tiny" offhand weapon / unarmed extra attacks).
Ideally Quan would have the following basic sequence: +15/+11/+7/+3.
FoB would make it: +15/+15/+15/+11/+7/+3.
Now, I'm sure you'd agree that it's better than: +13/+13/+9/+9/+5. Or +15/+11/+7/+3/+15.
This compensates for the Monk's med BAB and almost matches the Warrior's offensive power.

Ole' Bob, wielding the same pair as Quan (having a basic sequence of +20 / +16 / +12 / +8 / +4 / +0), would now have: +18/+18/+14/+14/+10/+10/+6, which is obviously better, but against opponents with high DR, he might prefer a slower weapon that carries a lot more impact (with solid modifiers (STR, magicaal plusses, magical enhancement, W.Focus tree etc) +20 / +14 / +8 / +2 could easily turn out to be +37/+31/+25/+19, or +31/+31/+25/+19/+15 with Slashing Flurry - and that's of the top of my head with a 2-min thought).


And what do we get for all this effort to redefine TWF and weapon speeds:
1. Far better balance between the martial classes.
2. Far better balance between different fighting styles.
3. Saving precious feats from going to waste on the ridiculously long official TWF tree just to keep up.
(and a lot of other stuff).

 

[Malfi]

I think I finally got it!

I understand old bobs attacks, but quan confuses me a bit.


Putting aside FoB and special cases for a moment, he'd be entitled to one of the following sequences:
+15/+10/+5/+15

Are you sure you don't mean +15/+10/+5/+0(the sequence for a medium weapon)/+10 (instead of +15 since TWF gives you your second highest attack).

or
+13/+13/+8/+8

If the normal sequence is +15/+10/+5/+0 it becomes +13/+13/+8/+8/+3.

Now if he used unarmed attacks that count as tiny. It would go +15/+11/+7/+3 as you said. If he used TWF it would go +15/+11/+7/+3/+11 or+13/+13/+9/+9/+5.

I have another question about flurry of blows, but I wana be sure I get this first.


On an entirely different note, I assume monsters get (as do pc's) their base reflex save as a dodge bonus. Initially I thought this would be a problem, but considering most monsters have hugely inflated Natural armors you could simply reduce their NA by their newly gained dodge bonus. This also has the effect of making their Flatfooted and Touch AC's much more balanced.
Thoughts?

 

[nonsi256]

I think I finally got it!

I understand old bobs attacks, but quan confuses me a bit.


Putting aside FoB and special cases for a moment, he'd be entitled to one of the following sequences:
+15/+10/+5/+15

Are you sure you don't mean +15/+10/+5/+0(the sequence for a medium weapon)/+10 (instead of +15 since TWF gives you your second highest attack).

or
+13/+13/+8/+8

You got it correct.
Nice catch

If the normal sequence is +15/+10/+5/+0 it becomes +13/+13/+8/+8/+3.

Now if he used unarmed attacks that count as tiny. It would go +15/+11/+7/+3 as you said. If he used TWF it would go +15/+11/+7/+3/+11 or+13/+13/+9/+9/+5.

I have another question about flurry of blows, but I wana be sure I get this first.

Which would clearly demonstrate the superiority of Interchangeability (unless you really need that one big strike).
And Interchangeability is precisely what balances the quick weapons vs. double weapons, which carry a bigger punch.

On an entirely different note, I assume monsters get (as do pc's) their base reflex save as a dodge bonus. Initially I thought this would be a problem, but considering most monsters have hugely inflated Natural armors you could simply reduce their NA by their newly gained dodge bonus. This also has the effect of making their Flatfooted and Touch AC's much more balanced.
Thoughts?

There's no solid thumb rule I can think to offer on this one, but here are some ideas.
Creatures with poor Ref saves (elephants for instance) don't bother dodging all that much. They have extremely tough hides. Even at 20HD their dodge bonus would amount to no more than +3.
Creatures with poor Ref saves probably have them to compensate, so it would be reasonable to lower their armor AC a bit.
Basically it should be a mix of theme and CR considerations (and you already proposed to adjust the CRs here and there).

If you come up with a formula, I'd like to see it. If not, just go with your gut instincts and let your gaming experience do the rest.

 

[Malfi]

If you come up with a formula, I'd like to see it. If not, just go with your gut instincts and let your gaming experience do the rest.


Well the formula is add half the monster's base reflex save to its ac as dodge bonus, as per your rules and then remove this bonus from the monsters other ac bonuses (preferably Natural armor). Don't change the Cr.

Now regarding TWF and FoB you say flurry of blows

FoB IS an improved version of TWF with ambidexterity. It starts “just as” and improves as the Monk gains levels.

To make good on his attack speed, a monk attacks interchangeably and:​

1. Eventually compromises less (5th) or not at all (9th) on his primary attack.​

2. Gains yet another attack (11th).



​

So Quans attack (with unarmed attacks) of +13/+13/+9/+9/+5 with flurry of blows that would not compromise his primary ( I assume main hand) attack, which means no -2 penalty would be like this. +15/+13/+11/+9/+7
With the extra attack (11th) +15/+15/+13/+11/+9/+7.
Am I close?

On a side note your monk doesn't seem get his wisdom to his ac, won't this make him even more squishy at low levels?

Also

With STR-score 23+, for all intents & purposes, you wield a 1H/2H weapon (see the "Abbreviations" spoiler below) in 1 hand as if it were a medium weapon and medium/light weapons as if they were light/tiny (respectively).


The way this is written it seems that you have to wield 2H weapons in one hand to gain the medium weapon progression, but it seems to me you want to say that they simply count as medium weapons and thus you can wield them in 1 hand. So you always gain the medium weapon bab progression with them.


EDIT: I kinda forgot I wanted to ask that sorry. In the core rules a sword of +3 costs 18k according to your rules it costs 5(SL)*6000=30k plus 9(minimum caster level)*5% on the main price, so 45% of 30k= 13,5k. So in sum it costs 43500 gp. Isn't that a tad too much of an increase?