My beefs with D20

[Celtavian]

re

Let me give an example of something I would like to simulate. I've been reading a bit about medieval combat. Apparently, plate armor was so well-made that shortbow arrows were all but ineffective against plate armor. For example, the armored men-at-arms and knights in King Richard's crusading army were nearly completely unharmed by the arrow's of Saladin's mounted archers. The small horse bows simply weren't powerful enough to penetrate plate or even partial plate armor.

I thought I might be able to make modifications to the core D&D system to accurately simulate the lack of effectiveness of different bows. It took far too much work to do it. The system just isn't conducive to simulating realistic combat without an unseemly overhaul which takes away from my enjoyment of the game and requires my players to use my typed rules rather than their books.

I just decided to use a different game system. GURPS does a beautiful job of capturing medieval combat in all its grim and gritty luster. I'm using it for my medieval Europe and Japan campaign.

I still love D&D. Its a blast to rise in levels until you become nearly god-like while facing increasingly powerful enemies that threaten the very fabric of the universe.

Sometimes, I want to play a character that always has to worry about squaring off against ten or so men-at-arms, that gets tired during combat, that doesn't shrug off every hit, is instantly healed after every battle, and really feels like your living the life of a medieval knight or samurai. Other systems do a much better job of simulating such a character, so I prefer to use them.

 

[Corinth]

All that D&D needs to achieve that goal is a class-based AC bonus and a lowered Massive Damage Threshold.

 

[Ranger REG]

Mutants and Masterminds, anyone? It uses a "damage save" mechanic that's really cool. You could easily expand it so that tough guys are able to "shake off" damage while "quick guys" are able to dodge blows. One of the cool things about it is that everytime you don't succeed, your ability to resist damage drops. So you get worse at avoiding damage the more damage you take. It's a pretty cool way to model decreasing combat ability with loss of health.

Use the hit points to base combat abilities on -- so that as your hit points drop you become a less effective combatant.

Brilliant design, that is.

Well, I don't know if that is what Celtavian want. Of course, his beef is with the D&D ruleset only, while tbitonti criticized the core d20 System itself.

But I see the bigger picture, the contribution of OGC mechanics for d20.

 

[mmadsen]

A good number of the responses here have been either: try some other game system or Rule Zero. Both of these amount to an agreement with tbitonti's complaint: "yes; everything you say is true, but you can just go ahead and not follow the rules you're talking about."

An odd apology.

Odd, but quite common -- there's nothing wrong combined with just change it.

 

[Psion]

A good number of the responses here have been either: try some other game system or Rule Zero. Both of these amount to an agreement with tbitonti's complaint: "yes; everything you say is true, but you can just go ahead and not follow the rules you're talking about."

And...?

Because it's not what he wants in a game doesn't mean what the game does is wrong. If you want something different, then the right solution is not necessarily to change it in the next edition (or whatever), because it may be optimal for lots of other players and/or acheiving the effect you desire might compromise some other feature of the game.

So whats a player to do?

If it's a subtle tweak you want, then use an optional rule (in the DMG or in a third party product... the defense bonus to AC option is well handled in the Second World Sourcebook, for example) or devise a solution on your own. If it is a big tweak, then obviously the optimal game for your tastes and needs isn't D&D, and you should seek another game.

There is nothing odd about it. It's an entirely sensible response, if perhaps seemingly too obvious. But then, a lot of people DON'T realize that their tastes in games and attendant objections aren't universal, so perhaps it's not obvious to all.