Pathfinder 2E My Biggest Concern for Pathfinder 2e

[TwoSix]

I assume the developers are aware of this.

5E and Pathfinder 2 are different games with different strengths and weaknesses. The flat math of 5E is better geared towards sandbox play, where you can create a region with orcs, ogres, manticores, hags, and hill giants, and it will be broadly playable by PCs from level 2 to level 9. Pathfinder 2 takes a different approach, where the band of suitable challenge is narrower, but the rewards of optmization and system mastery are greater.

If I were running a sandbox campaign I'd run 5E, while if I were running an story-driven adventure path I'd probably lean towards Pathfinder 2e.

Considering that its adventure paths are one of the most recognizable elements of the Pathfinder brand, this feels almost certainly intentional.

 

[CapnZapp]

My biggest concern is that only at level enemies are going to be fun to fight against.

To return to the original question...

I can't say it is "fun" to desperately fight for your life against the odds, but it certainly is a spice every good adventure should consider using.

I think the real difference coming from 5E to PF2 might be that the window for defeating ridiculously over-leveled foes is closing. L+4 yes, but L+6 or L+8 nope.

That might not be an entirely bad thing.

PS. Of course, it might turn out high-level heroes get so many doodads (in the form of feats, items, and whatnot) that they still romp thru the Bestiary... I simply don't know.

 

[Mistwell]

My biggest concern is three weeks into sales on Amazon and the PF2 core book has dropped to below #1200 in All Books (#1208). This, despite selling as low as $35.99 on Amazon (retails for $47.99).

For context, we're now in the first week of year SIX for 5e, and the Player's Handbook is still ranked in the top 100 for All Books (#94).

I know both companies make digital sales, and of course store sales as well. But still, these are some shocking numbers to me. The disparity is on a scale that I can't justify based on "it must be digital sales" or "it must be direct sales" or "Amazon numbers are biased".

I also heard they did not sell out at GenCon. Which was planned, but I have never heard of planning to ship a near mountain of extra book inventory back home with you (which is what reports from GenCon were of what was left, and that sales were very light on Sunday with no lines).

Maybe this is unfounded unease on my part. It goes against my bias - I genuinely assumed PF2 sales would be extremely strong out the gate, and do well long term. But I am starting to be (at least mildly) concerned that it's not hitting the expected sales numbers.

This isn't something we'd hear in any official capacity. I think we heard glowing reports from Paizo about the MMO right up until they laid off most of the staff for that project and missed their targets, and I don't think we're going to get any data from Paizo other than "It's doing better than expected". Which I guess I don't blame them for, as that's the job of public relations. But it makes figuring out the real situation kinda difficult for a fan.

I hope I am wrong on this one. Paizo is a good company, they make some great RPG products, their employees are some of the best in the industry, and it's good for the industry to have that competition for WOTC. (And from a personal bias, I use some Pathfinder adventures to convert to 5e).

 

[Retreater]

All the Math-finder in these posts makes my head hurt. Haha.
But yes, the anecdotes of mountains of PF2 product at GenCon leftover on Sunday are completely correct from my first-hand account. What also may not have been noticed is the secondary market of other booths selling copies too, all of them with massive stacks remaining on Sunday.
I'm glad there was enough product for their fans, but it seemed like there were far too many - again, just in my experience. Other GenCon releases they ran out (or at least, very low): PF1, Starfinder.

 

[Ancalagon]

It may be not that PF2 is selling poorly, but that 5e is selling ridiculously well. A proper comparison would be previous PF1 sales.

 

[Markh3rd]

Anecdotally the two gaming stores near me are not carrying it yet and neither is the nearby B&N (which still has a few PF1 products and a massive section of 5e products.) Another game store further away reduced the price of its PF2 books already.

I am going to PAX west this year and wanted to play some PFS there after building my ranger but there has been no word on games being scheduled.

 

[CapnZapp]

My biggest concern is three weeks into sales on Amazon and the PF2 core book has dropped to below #1200 in All Books (#1208). This, despite selling as low as $35.99 on Amazon (retails for $47.99).

For context, we're now in the first week of year SIX for 5e, and the Player's Handbook is still ranked in the top 100 for All Books (#94).

I know both companies make digital sales, and of course store sales as well. But still, these are some shocking numbers to me. The disparity is on a scale that I can't justify based on "it must be digital sales" or "it must be direct sales" or "Amazon numbers are biased".

I also heard they did not sell out at GenCon. Which was planned, but I have never heard of planning to ship a near mountain of extra book inventory back home with you (which is what reports from GenCon were of what was left, and that sales were very light on Sunday with no lines).

Maybe this is unfounded unease on my part. It goes against my bias - I genuinely assumed PF2 sales would be extremely strong out the gate, and do well long term. But I am starting to be (at least mildly) concerned that it's not hitting the expected sales numbers.

This isn't something we'd hear in any official capacity. I think we heard glowing reports from Paizo about the MMO right up until they laid off most of the staff for that project and missed their targets, and I don't think we're going to get any data from Paizo other than "It's doing better than expected". Which I guess I don't blame them for, as that's the job of public relations. But it makes figuring out the real situation kinda difficult for a fan.

I hope I am wrong on this one. Paizo is a good company, they make some great RPG products, their employees are some of the best in the industry, and it's good for the industry to have that competition for WOTC. (And from a personal bias, I use some Pathfinder adventures to convert to 5e).

My first advice, Mist: stare at sales numbers less, play and enjoy your game more.

That said:

Paizo had the chance to learn from 5E's success. They chose to disregard its improvements over both PF1/3E and (somehow) 4E to create a very involved yet restricted game with open eyes.

Or at least eyes that could have been open if Paizo only lifted their gaze and exited their own bubble.

It's premature to say "I told you* so", so I'll wait.

*) Not any individual, more the forum at large

 

[Markh3rd]

I think you're going to get your chance CapnZapp. My gut is telling me anyway.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think it's too early to tell. There definitely is a portion of the market that wants a complex, highly tactical game with tons of fiddly bits.

 

[Imaculata]

I hope Pathfinder 2e makes it easier to scale up monsters. In 3.5 it always was a giant hassle to figure out how to scale up a monster for higher levels and figuring out the CR and its new statistics.