My characters mow through my opponents!

[Malar's Cow]

I'm still a n00b to 3rd edition D&D, and fear that I may not be using the rules correctly. There's definitely something wrong, because the baddies I throw up against them get knocked down like Ikea furniture, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Here are the details. There are seven player characters in the group, mostly figher-types. Even the cleric and the druid are buffing up on combat abilities, seeing how succesful the barbarians, rangers and fighters are at combat situations. They're only second level, and yet they mow through ogres, trolls, tons of orcs and goblins, and even a few minor demons without breaking a sweat.

I'm not looking to off any of the PC's intentionally, but I want the threat of death to be ever-present during each and every encounter. I design the encounters using the challenge rating rules, but honestly, my group would shred a group of 4 orcs, which the rules say is a suitable challenge to a 2nd level party.

Something has got to be wrong with what I'm doing, I'm just not sure what! Please help!

 

[the Jester]

Well, the CR rules assume a party of four; with seven pcs you need to roughly double the number of the enemies (but NOT the CR; a CR 4 monster is likely to die quickly after killing a coupla pcs.)

One piece of advice- don't fudge the dice.

 

[DragonLancer]

What do you have as a party, and what sort of encounter are you throwing at them?

The best advice someone gave me was to ignore the CR for the most part, and look at the monster/opponent for what it is. Do you think it is too powerful or too easy?

Also, look at its to hit and add 10, thats the average AC it wil hit. And take 10 from from its AC and thats the mods that the party need to hit it on an average roll.

Using that formula has helped me quite a bit.

Good luck.

 

[doseyclwn]

I'm still a n00b to 3rd edition D&D, and fear that I may not be using the rules correctly. There's definitely something wrong, because the baddies I throw up against them get knocked down like Ikea furniture, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Here are the details. There are seven player characters in the group, mostly figher-types. Even the cleric and the druid are buffing up on combat abilities, seeing how succesful the barbarians, rangers and fighters are at combat situations. They're only second level, and yet they mow through ogres, trolls, tons of orcs and goblins, and even a few minor demons without breaking a sweat.

I'm not looking to off any of the PC's intentionally, but I want the threat of death to be ever-present during each and every encounter. I design the encounters using the challenge rating rules, but honestly, my group would shred a group of 4 orcs, which the rules say is a suitable challenge to a 2nd level party.

Something has got to be wrong with what I'm doing, I'm just not sure what! Please help!

As it has already been stated, the rules are made for a party of four. Here is what I usually do, because I used to run into the same stuff. I woudl make then encounters 2 levels above what the rules would have for a party of 7. Also, I reccomend "tweaking" the monsters, making your own. Thirdly, have the monsters waiting for them. Have the monsters prepared, and ambush the party. Almost kill a pc every game so that they get scared. If you do that and one of them get arrogant, kill that pc, but give him a chance to get resurrected. Most of these problems can be avoided with preparation.

 

[Malar's Cow]

What do you have as a party, and what sort of encounter are you throwing at them?

At first, I was following the CR rules and putting them up against CR 1 and 2 encounters. A few orcs, some skeletons, etc. They seemed to handle that without difficulty, so I upped the number of opponents. A little tougher, but still not much of a challenge, except when they rolled poorly or I rolled well.
Finally, I started putting them up against CR 4 and 5 creatures like an owlbear, a troll and an ogre. Although one or two got knocked silly, they still dispatched the creatures without much ado. I'm beginning to think I need to pull out the Draconomicon on them...
The party's all 2nd level, and consists of a barbarian, a cleric, a druid, a fighter, 2 rangers and a rogue.

 

[DragonLancer]

What sort of feats and magical items do they have?

If they can kill creatures like trolls and owlbears easily enough at 2nd, that seems a little odd. Not impossible, but not something I would have expected.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm still a n00b to 3rd edition D&D, and fear that I may not be using the rules correctly. There's definitely something wrong, because the baddies I throw up against them get knocked down like Ikea furniture, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Here are the details. There are seven player characters in the group, mostly figher-types. Even the cleric and the druid are buffing up on combat abilities, seeing how succesful the barbarians, rangers and fighters are at combat situations. They're only second level, and yet they mow through ogres, trolls, tons of orcs and goblins, and even a few minor demons without breaking a sweat.

I'm not looking to off any of the PC's intentionally, but I want the threat of death to be ever-present during each and every encounter. I design the encounters using the challenge rating rules, but honestly, my group would shred a group of 4 orcs, which the rules say is a suitable challenge to a 2nd level party.

Something has got to be wrong with what I'm doing, I'm just not sure what! Please help!

An encounter with EL equal to the party level will take up about 20% of their resources. It's supposed to be easy. (I'd love to use fewer but more powerful encounters, and I think a lot of other DMs are like that, but doing so will make spellcasters more powerful compared to other characters.) There should be about 4 encounters per day, but at lower levels characters may only be able to deal with 2 or 3.

The group EL is 4. That's an encounter that would take away about 20% of their resources.

I would suggest using several different types of opponents. So, instead of orcs, maybe use a couple of orc barbarians (they can have class levels, after all), a stealthy creature and a spellcasting creature (such as an aranea). Those types of creatures make better encounters than low-level mages.

The encounter should still be balanced, but by going against your players' strengths it will be more difficult and (hopefully) more interesting.

You can use a single powerful creature (eg one CR 3 or so) and several CR 1/2 or 1 allies. The powerful creature might actually be something dumb and act as hired help or a slave to the other villains. (For instance, you could use a warg or an ogre as a powerful creature, accompanied by goblins.)

Martial players have a hard time with DR at low levels. Use this to your advantage There aren't many low CR creatures with DR, however.

You can use terrain - for instance, a 50 foot wide river (stream?) with archers on the other side. They have to find a way to lure the players to the river edge, however - perhaps use a grappling underwater creature as well. (That's really nasty... not only do they take damage from improved grab or constrict, but they're also drowning!)

 

[Vargo]

Another trick is to swarm 'em. Don't use 1-2 monsters, especially against a large party like that. 1-2 ogres? Somewhat scary, but swarm tactics will take them down. 20-40 kobolds, in formation? That's a little more scary. Then there's this force:

10 Kobold War-1 with tridents + large wooden shields
10 Kobold War-1 with halberds
5 Kobold War-1 with bows/crossbows
2 Kobold Sorc-1 (Magic Missile/Sleep)
1 Kobold Sorc-3 (Pick wisely)
1 Kobold Cleric-2
1 Kobold Cleric-4

I'd be TERRIFIED of this force if I were your party.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Something to look at: what are the characters' stats? If they've got multiple 18s or 18, 17,16, 10, 12, 10, then they're more powerful than their level would indicate. If their scores are more like 16, 13, 14, 13, 10, 8, then they're at about the typical power level.

A party like yours is significantly more powerful than a 4 person party as others have noted. If you treat them as if they were level 3 or so (+1 level for the extra three players) you'll have a more realistic assessment of their capabilities although one that is prone to some error.

An EL 3-4 encounter will be a speedbump for them.
An EL 5 encounter will usually be challenging but not deadly.
An EL 6 encounter will have the potential to turn deadly but usually won't.
An EL 7+ encounter will be deadly and will frequently kill at least one character.

Now, you don't want to take this any more seriously than you should take the CR system. Tossing the party up against a troll is more likely to kill characters than tossing them against a pair of ogres (any character hit by both troll claws and rended is probably dead). Similarly, a manticore who just flies around and pelts the party (or worse yet, one character at a time) with tailspikes will be much more likely to kill a PC than eight orc warriors.

A few things to consider:
1. Terrain.

Don't just set the monsters on one side of a featureless plain and the PCs on the other side. If you do this, the PCs will manuever to maximize their advantage against the monsters. Instead, try pitting the PCs against an ogre on the side of a winding mountain road with a steep slope to the left and a cliff to the right. Only two or three PCs can approach the ogre at once. Or try pitting the PCs against kobolds in the narrow tunnels of a gnomish mine where all medium sized PCs will be squeezing. Or try putting the troll on the center of a bridge (he lives underneath it of course).

Terrain makes combat more interesting, encourages PCs to do interesting and creative things (like jump on top of tables to get a height advantage against their foes or take cover behind an overturned table). It also gives you a chance to funnel the combat and keep the PCs from all ganging up on your bad guy at once.

2. Vary the monsters. Don't just toss a monster manual ogre at the PCs. Instead, toss an ogre barbarian with a 13 dex and the combat reflexes feat at the PCs and surprise them with the second AoO. Don't just throw the PCs up against hobgoblin warriors. Throw the PCs up against a group of disciplined Hobgoblins with heavy shields, shortswords, and the Phalanx Fighting feat.

3. Don't be afraid to use spell like abilities and spells against them. Give the hobgoblins a wizard with Enlarge Person and Ray of Enfeeblement and have the wizard Enlarge the hobgoblin leader and then Enfeeble whatever PC is facing him. Give the hobgoblins a cleric too and have the cleric use Bane and Doom against the PCs as well as blessing the hobgoblins (and curing his Enlarged Leader). Or try a bunch of hobgoblins with Guisarms and Combat Reflexes and make their leader a hobgoblin fighter with Improved Trip. Enlarge him for extra fun. Give the bad guys a couple of skilled archers (point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot) with mighty composite longbows to back them up. While the PCs struggle to mow through the bad guy tanks, have the archers light them up.

 

[Xune Woe]

I would say the most common mistake that a n00b DM makes is that he doesn't understand the idea of using tactics/strategy in his encounters or he lacks understanding of the monster's capabilities as he's running the combat.

Some of the other posters gave some excellent specifics on varying terrain, so definitely look at that. Moreover, attempt to determine your monster's strategy in advance ... that way you'll know what each creature will do from round-to-round. Don't be afraid to improvise if your initial strategy isn't working.

If your encounters involve a bunch of monsters merely rushing your party, then it's no wonder the party is mowing them down easily. Now, don't get me wrong, some monsters are just too stupid to formulate good strategy on their own. In that case, keep things simple, or perhaps throw in a leader that isn't so stupid that can help up the level of strategy your monsters employ.