D&D 4E My compiled list of 4E's WoWisms

[RigaMortus2]

Here you come off as incredibly self important.

Sorry you feel this way. This is a thread I started with a specific reason in mind. I don't want people to post "WoW has classes, so does 4E!!! ADD THIS TO YOU LIST!!!" Obviously, this is not the kind of thing I am looking for. I am looking for specific criteria when I decide to add something to the list. Hence, if you have a suggestion, and I agree with it, I will add it. I am not going to add something I feel is silly. Sorry.

Also, what's with people posting things they don't want to discuss on a forum dedicated to discussing things?

Huh? Not sure if you directed this to me. If so, I missed what you are asking. If not, then just disregard

As for your list, I think you missed a big one: Everyone has combat powers with a variety of effects and conditions for use. This is more a general CRPG-ism than a WoW-ism, but it's also definitely one of the core features of WoW's gameplay.

Hmmm... In this instance, I'd try to look for something a little more specific. For example, if 4E had a power called "Jade Dragon Tail Sweep" and WoW had the same named "power" I would probably add this as an example. I think this idea is a little too general.

And it seems like they are taking this idea more from Tome of Battle. So then you have to think, did ToB "borrow" these ideas from WoW? I don't really see that myself. An example I DO see a 3E product borrow from MMOs is the Knight's Taunt ability (Challenge) from PHB2.

Also, look at the Talent trees and Talents. WoW has this (so does Diablo 2), but so does d20 Modern. I think the whole Talent idea has been strewn across the board too much. If anything, I would agree d20 Modern "borrowed" the idea from WoW or Diablo 2, which Star Wars: Saga took, and now 4E will have. And yeah, I am sure there are other video games or even RPGs that had "talent trees" before those mentioned above... Let's not squabble over the minor details, you get my drift I am sure.

You're not going to yell at me for not adding this suggestion to the list, are you?

 

[Cam Banks]

I would just like to add that it is really amazingly frustrating that one of the reasons gnomes were ditched as a player race was that the race had no core identity, and that since WoW had done the tinker thing and everybody knew about the tinker thing, clearly they couldn't use the tinker thing. What the hell?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Zarithar]

I would just like to add that it is really amazingly frustrating that one of the reasons gnomes were ditched as a player race was that the race had no core identity, and that since WoW had done the tinker thing and everybody knew about the tinker thing, clearly they couldn't use the tinker thing. What the hell?

Cheers,
Cam

Espescially since the "tinker gnome" archetype was introduced with the Dragonlance setting... which pre-dates WoW. So really using that logic, we shouldn't have wood elves or dwarves that live under mountains since Tolkien used them in that way.

 

[Counterspin]

Tinker gnome as an identity is highly problematic because of the setting presumptions and the system requirements. If you make that their identity, then the players are going to want the gadgets if they play the race. I don't think they were willing to spare the space for a gadget system, so tinkerers were right out.

 

[Doug McCrae]

WoWisms in 4e:

More gamist.
Combat works better as a game.
Improved class balance.
All classes have lots of special powers.
Magic items have a (suggested) minimum character level.
Tanks can hold aggro better.
Bigger level range, 1-20 becomes 1-30.
Elemental giants.
Wizards no longer omnipotent.
Warlock is a core class.
Alignment less important.
No Great Wheel.
No erinyes.
Faster advancement? This one is highly debatable, as to advance in WoW at high level requires killing thousands of monsters.
'No Vancian magic'. This isn't really true as there are still per day abilities, but I see lots of people saying it.


Areas where 4e has moved away from WoW:

Dedicated healer no longer necessary.
Reduced Xmas tree effect.
Increased emphasis on the battle grid - OMG! They're turning D&D into a CCG MMORPG wargame!!11!
Druid no longer a core class.
Gnomes aren't a player race. No tinker gnomes.
Paladins don't have to be good guys.
Any race/class combination possible.
Crafting is gone? Not sure if this is true of 4e. Someone mentioned it in a post.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I believe in a playtest report there was a mention of a cleric healing an ally, triggered by the cleric scoring a critical hit or something. That's very MMO.

I'll add this if you can think of an instance in an MMO or WoW where this occurs. I agree, it is kind of video gamey, I just can't think of a video game that does this.

 

[outsider]

Specific implementations of many of the appropriations are WOW-derived, and this makes them WOW-appropriations, so the accusations cannot be denied credibly.

In some cases, that is correct(which is why I noted that it's not relevant that some of those complaints were things that came from previous video games. They may have came from previous video games, but I doubt they would have been used in D&D if it wasn't for WoW). In others, not so much. Ignoring precedents set in previous versions of D&D so you can blame things on WoW is something that gets on my nerves quickly.

I'll freely admit that WoW is influencing D&D. And it should, as WoW is basically computerized D&D and it's succeeding on a scale that is unprecedented for D&D. There's alot of good things there for D&D to swipe. There's alot of bad things too, but until I need a group of 25 to kill a single dragon(or worse a single elf), or I need to kill 2000 orcs to get a new hat, or I have to spend 5 hours picking flowers before I go into a dungeon, or I have to spend 30+ hours a week playing D&D for my character to amount to anything, I'll trust WotC to be able to seperate the good from the bad.

 

[PeterWeller]

You're not going to yell at me for not adding this suggestion to the list, are you?

Oh no, man. Your initial post read to me like, "I am the final arbitrator of what is and isn't a WoW-ism in 4E, and I will not lower myself to argue over it," instead of, "I'm not going to put anything silly on the list." That apparently wasn't your meaning, so my bad

As for the powers thing, I got the impression you were using WoW-ism as a convenient euphemism for "anything derived from CRPGs and MMOs in particular." Again, I apparently misread, so my bad.

 

[PeterWeller]

Here, read for yourself.

Oh, I know their back story and all. To be more specific, they're holy, extra dimensional space aliens, which is still nothing like Tieflings.

 

[Corinth]

Paladins don't have to be good guys.

Apparently you don't know about Blood Elf Paladins.