D&D 5E (2014) My Crazy Theory about 2015 5e

[Flexor the Mighty!]

A strawman. I didn't say it was new, I said it was fast.


Heh... Attacking my credibility, check. Using another strawman, check.

Let me said it again. After the hype that comes with the release of the core books, the news in January and February haven't been good for D&D. I'm not sure how you can banalize the cancellation of a book, the firing of two editors, Dungeonscape being scrapped before launch, cease and desist letters that annihilate some fans, the lack of PDFs, the lack of OGL, the lack of up coming products, a credible retailer saying the business model isn't good and a game developper saying licensing is very hard to do with Hasbro (when licensing will be an important part of D&D) as just people complaining. But hey, spin away. It makes people feel better to defend their brand, even when things look bad for it.

Is most of that important to typical tabletop gamers? I mean nobody in my group goes to game forums. They have a the core books and are having a great time with it. Hiring at WOTC, or video game licensing really doesn't matter.

Why do I care about the business model? Yeah a GW or MTG model where you buy a lot of stuff constantly is good for shareholders, not sure its as good for average gamers.

 

[Kramodlog]

I really don't think "improvisation" was ever a part of WotC's plan for 5E, because business "improvisation" (i.e.: failing to plan) is planning to fail.

That it what it looks like right now. A good example is how suddenly they scrapped half of the books they had for this year. Like two weeks after they released the cover art. Looks like improv.

[...] but they cannot afford another financial disaster like 4E ultimately became.

Well, they can. WotC/Hasbro has deep pockets and D&D is chump change in all of this. Of course, I'm not saying this is done volontarely, just that bad decisions are being made.

I'm also not convinced that the community has lost confidence to the degree you've claimed.

Well, there will always be fanboys who will say that Rome is not burning. What I know is that the news in January and February haven't been good and that complaints are starting to emerge already. After eveyone applauded the core launch. And it is not coming from edition warriors. It is coming from fans of 5e/D&D.

WotC wasn't publishing Adventurer's Handbook, Sasquatch was.

Nope. WotC is the publisher and does the editing. SG does the bulk of the writing.

WotC has full legal right to take legal action against people who host their material for free.

I didn't say they didn't. Just that it annihilates fans.

Obsidian software's comments about WotC, Hasbro, and TSR were just ridiculous rehashes of long-debunked nonsense complaints from people who don't seem to remember what business was like under TSR.

He seems to remember it positevely. What was positive about it was that TSR was a smaller compagny with less hurdles when it came to licensing. Maybe he is wrong, but they have cancelled Dungeonscape and haven't made any OGL yet. They cancelled a splatbook a thrid party was making and we aren't sure why. Not sure people at SG liked to have their hard work cancelled. They do not inform the community why they send cease and desist letters, so it seems arbitrary. Dealing with them seems hard.

 

[Kramodlog]

Concentration isn't broken, so nothing to correct...

Heh... I remember when people were saying that about 4e. That turned out great.

* "We have every intention of releasing the books in electronic versions. But we don't have a date at this time." - Chris Perkins.

Like they are known to be truthful and deliver on everything they say. Where are the tactical modules? The conversion guide? I remember a Collectable Card Game that came out when 4e came out and officially it wasn't a CCG. So yeah, I'm not olding my breathe. And if it happens in two years, will it matter by then?

True, they don't have them yet, but the 3rd of 3 core books was just released December 9th. That's 2 months ago.

Yeah, no. Those aren't PDFs of the core books. Just something lite.

* Re: OGL - They've said there will be a new licensing announcement in the spring. In the meantime, the current OGL is still in place and valid.

And they are sending C&D letters without much info on what is going on. 3PP are hesitant. The result is that the quantity of 3PP products is dismal. And regarding announcements, see above. So yeah, not holding my breathe. I'll believe it when it happens.

* No announcements about future products? Your definition of "no" doesn't fit with reality. (Princes of the Apocalypse, and a mention that they're already working on an unnamed storyline to follow Princes of the Apocalypse/EE...)

Yeah, I ment after PoA. I think anyone in good faith would have understood that.

* Re: the digital tools. Here's what they said when they announced they were moving away from Trapdoor: "It’s never easy to end a relationship with one of our business partners, but we remain committed to creating great tabletop and digital gaming experiences for Dungeons & Dragons players and DMs around the world."

Yeah, they have that whole credibility problem. Especially when it comes to anything digital.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I didn't say they didn't. Just that it annihilates fans.

I know this is picky, but I think you mean "alienate". When I read it the first time on a previous post I assumed it referred to some form of financial annihilation but I think it's a typo.
Sorry for being a pedant.

 

[Zaran]

I'm not suggesting that they are making 6e already. I am saying that they have gone a long time without selling any product and HAD to put out something last year. Think of it as another round of beta testing except with hardcovers. They wouldn't have to change any of the art or layout. They could sell it as a revised edition.

The concentration mechanic is just fine. The amount of spells that uses it is ridiculous though.

 

[Kramodlog]

Is most of that important to typical tabletop gamers? I mean nobody in my group goes to game forums. They have a the core books and are having a great time with it. Hiring at WOTC, or video game licensing really doesn't matter.

Interesting. So what does that say about the future/longevity of D&D if WotC/Hasbro is banking on none-RPG products? I mean do you think it is a wide spread sentiment among D&D fans?

Why do I care about the business model?

Depends how long you plan on using the current rules of D&D. If you do not plan on buying any other e book or switch when another edition comes out, you can indeed not care about it. If longevity of 5e is important to you, well maybe you should be worried. Or excited. I mean they did just fire two editors! And cancelled a book! What else is coming after PoA? We do not know! How exiciting is that? WOOT! D&D! D&D! D&D!

 

[Gecko85]

Yeah, I ment after PoA. I think anyone in good faith would have understood that.

But that's not what you said. No "good faith" necessary. You said "Now that the core is out..." So, since the core books have been released, there have been no product announcements. Which isn't true. Stop moving the goalposts.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Interesting. So what does that say about the future/longevity of D&D if WotC/Hasbro is banking on none-RPG products? I mean do you think it is a wide spread sentiment among D&D fans?

Depends how long you plan on using the current rules of D&D. If you do not plan on buying any other e book or switch when another edition comes out, you can indeed not care about it. If longevity of 5e is important to you, well maybe you should be worried. Or excited. I mean they did just fire two editors! And cancelled a book! What else is coming after PoA? We do not know! How exiciting is that? WOOT! D&D! D&D! D&D!

No idea if its a widespread thing, none of use play video games other than one D&D online player. I'm not in the loop for that. The only thing I'm really interested in seeing is a live action movie or TV show using the D&D IP.

I'm excited about the 5e books I've bought and the fun we are having with them. I'm not thinking of what books I may be buying in a year since we have barely scratched the surface of the books we have. If the next rules book isn't out until 2017 that's cool since at the moment I have no need for more books now and don't need a new rules all the time, there are enough rules.

The only thing I'd like to see is Dungeon magazine restarted in some form. Outside that I'm good for a long time.

 

[billd91]

I mean they did just fire two editors!

It's kind of hard to read much into the downsizing of two editors. WotC followed a pattern of doing things like that even when times were pretty good. The message being told by those tea leaves is ambiguous at best.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Let me said it again. After the hype that comes with the release of the core books, the news in January and February haven't been good for D&D. I'm not sure how you can banalize the cancellation of a book, the firing of two editors, Dungeonscape being scrapped before launch, cease and desist letters that annihilate some fans, the lack of PDFs, the lack of OGL, the lack of up coming products, a credible retailer saying the business model isn't good and a game developer saying licensing is very hard to do with Hasbro (when licensing will be an important part of D&D) as just people complaining. But hey, spin away. It makes people feel better to defend their brand, even when things look bad for it.

Nothing we all haven't seen many many times before.

I'm not saying everything is sunshine and roses... all I'm saying is that what's happening now is not really any different than what we've seen for more than a decade from the WotC-owned Dungeons & Dragons. The 5E naysaying is in no stronger position of being a death knell than any of the 4E, 3.5E or 3E naysaying was... and thus there's no reason for any of us to get any more uptight right now than we have in the past.

Sorry. 5E just isn't that special.