My DM has killed the game for me, sugestions on how to get back the wonder for me.
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
SamuraiY said:
We have no idea if the players made the skill checks, The DM had them roll and then told us what we found out. We also have no idea how the BBEG will survive from inside the lava pit. We have not seen the statue wake up, only it was not melting.
When i said it killed the game for me, I meant just this paticallar one. I do need to play with a different goup of players to get a different perspective. But its hard finding gamers where I moved to.
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Sounds like your DM did not have a clear idea what he wanted to do and was just making it up as he was going along. Clearly he wanted the statue and breastplate to build up into something more but never got a handle on how he was going to do it. He didn't want it to be easy but I agree he should have run and come up with a solution later. If you dropped it into the middle of the ocean he could have had some Kuo-toa come across it and animate it. The lich would no doubt come looking for revenge. Obviously he wanted it resolved within the same game session and didn't want a return appearance. I can understand the Dwarven Forge thing though. Think about the ring in LOTR. The ONLY place it could be destroyed was the place that it had been created. Heat wasn't an issue.
Find out how he prepares for his game sessions. If he tells you that he just comes up with it on the fly then you might consider running the game yourself or finding a new DM.
Find out how he prepares for his game sessions. If he tells you that he just comes up with it on the fly then you might consider running the game yourself or finding a new DM.
The way he set it up, it was not to be resolved in the same session. We had to find like six gems, and the breastplate, each of those was a seprate adventure. Finding the breastplate on the lich/ statue was a surpise. I do agree that I don't think he had a good idea on how to resolve it.
Beard in the Sky
First Post
Ok
It might help if you got him to look at what he is doing objectivley. For example, ask him (politely) exactly how he is -controlling- what choices your PCs are making, as in spell choice, where to go, etc. He needs to understand that there has to be -some- choice. I have been in games in which it seemed like the DM was going to forget we were in the room and he was just telling a story. I know the feeling. It could very well be however that he has -no idea- that this is what he is doing. Perception can be a strange thing. I teach high school and I have always found it very effective if I can get a student who is causing problems to -see- things from the other side of the desk (as I try to do for them). Give that a try and see how it works. No good DM -wants- his or her players frustrated.
It might help if you got him to look at what he is doing objectivley. For example, ask him (politely) exactly how he is -controlling- what choices your PCs are making, as in spell choice, where to go, etc. He needs to understand that there has to be -some- choice. I have been in games in which it seemed like the DM was going to forget we were in the room and he was just telling a story. I know the feeling. It could very well be however that he has -no idea- that this is what he is doing. Perception can be a strange thing. I teach high school and I have always found it very effective if I can get a student who is causing problems to -see- things from the other side of the desk (as I try to do for them). Give that a try and see how it works. No good DM -wants- his or her players frustrated.
JesterPoet
First Post
I would say, before talking to the DM, you'd better make damned sure you have all your facts straight about him railroading you.
I ran a story a few months ago where I know my players felt railroaded. Many of the "fantastic ideas" they came up with simply didn't work out. I let them try them, or had an NPC tell them it had already been tried, but they still didn't work.
However, had any of them come to me and claimed I had been railroading them, I would have pointed out the MANY, MANY places to search, ask questions, etc. that they never bothered to go to. They had tons of places to explore, but in searching for combat, they never bothered, so nothing worked until they simply stumbled upon the answer with a little luck.
Nonetheless, I'd make sure he REALLY was railroading you before you talk to him about it.
My experience has shown me there are far more bad players than bad DMs.
I ran a story a few months ago where I know my players felt railroaded. Many of the "fantastic ideas" they came up with simply didn't work out. I let them try them, or had an NPC tell them it had already been tried, but they still didn't work.
However, had any of them come to me and claimed I had been railroading them, I would have pointed out the MANY, MANY places to search, ask questions, etc. that they never bothered to go to. They had tons of places to explore, but in searching for combat, they never bothered, so nothing worked until they simply stumbled upon the answer with a little luck.
Nonetheless, I'd make sure he REALLY was railroading you before you talk to him about it.
My experience has shown me there are far more bad players than bad DMs.
Beard in the Sky
First Post
It doesn't have to be some official meeting somewhere. You said the guy is a friend of yours... talk to him like you would about anything else. Don't make this out to be more than it is.
Wolffenjugend
First Post
As a longtime DM myself, it sounds like your DM spent a considerable amount of time on his BBEG and really wanted your party to fight it. I can sympathize since I've created really cool NPCs (IMO) and then had the party say, "No thanks, we don't want that mission."
My solution would be a compromise. The DM allows the party to overcome the obstacle in a creative fashion that avoids fighting the BBEG, and then the party agrees to run a "mock" encounter or a "dream" encounter in which they find out what would have happened had they battled the BBEG. That way, the DM gets to use his BBEG, and the party isn't railroaded.
I also think your DM's a little on the green side b/c a potentially better solution would be for the DM to bring the BBEG back at some point to have his revenge on the party for foiling his plans.
My solution would be a compromise. The DM allows the party to overcome the obstacle in a creative fashion that avoids fighting the BBEG, and then the party agrees to run a "mock" encounter or a "dream" encounter in which they find out what would have happened had they battled the BBEG. That way, the DM gets to use his BBEG, and the party isn't railroaded.
I also think your DM's a little on the green side b/c a potentially better solution would be for the DM to bring the BBEG back at some point to have his revenge on the party for foiling his plans.
I agree with Beard in the Sky on a couple of points.
I have been on the other end of this type of situation. I ran a campaign that ended badly a couple of years ago. About a year later, one of the players told me that they had spoken together on the rides home and felt like I "was telling a story with them along for the ride".
It would have helped much more if they had said that during the campaign. It hurt coming a year later, as an aside in another conversation, because it meant that they had been letting this idea build in their heads for some time.
As it was, I did not "have a story to tell". However, I run the kind of world where the creatures in the dungeon react "reasonably".
I was running the Sunless Citadel. After defeating the Goblins, the party took a couple of weeks to heal up, train, and travel to a bigger town for some supplies. When they returned, the Kobolds had solidified their hold on the upper floor, and reached an agreement with the Druid. The Kobolds had sabotaged the stairs leading back up to the surface, increasing the number and difficulty of the balance checks to get down to their lair. I saw this as a kind of crude trap, the sort that Kobolds would use. The players saw this as "punishment" for something.
So, my point is that perception really is important, as is trying to see if you are not misinterpreting the events. And, talking to your DM, either alone or as a group, is better than working yourself into a stew.
I have been on the other end of this type of situation. I ran a campaign that ended badly a couple of years ago. About a year later, one of the players told me that they had spoken together on the rides home and felt like I "was telling a story with them along for the ride".
It would have helped much more if they had said that during the campaign. It hurt coming a year later, as an aside in another conversation, because it meant that they had been letting this idea build in their heads for some time.
As it was, I did not "have a story to tell". However, I run the kind of world where the creatures in the dungeon react "reasonably".
I was running the Sunless Citadel. After defeating the Goblins, the party took a couple of weeks to heal up, train, and travel to a bigger town for some supplies. When they returned, the Kobolds had solidified their hold on the upper floor, and reached an agreement with the Druid. The Kobolds had sabotaged the stairs leading back up to the surface, increasing the number and difficulty of the balance checks to get down to their lair. I saw this as a kind of crude trap, the sort that Kobolds would use. The players saw this as "punishment" for something.
So, my point is that perception really is important, as is trying to see if you are not misinterpreting the events. And, talking to your DM, either alone or as a group, is better than working yourself into a stew.
