D&D 4E My First 4E Game: Disappointing. Yours? (UPDATED with player feedback)

[Thornir Alekeg]

I hammered out an e-mail and sent it BCC to the guys. It went something like this:

[snip]

I think what they wrote back makes a ton of sense. On a night where they weren't going to be able to play what they were hoping for, they end up with pre-gen characters in which they have no investment, to play a game that only a portion of the rules are available for in an adventure designed around those partial rules.

Honestly, I think it would be hard to get most people to really enjoy that, unless they were doing it specifically because they wanted to playtest 4e.

Once 4e is out in full, people have a chance to digest the rules a little, and more importantly have a chance to make their own PCs, imagining the things they will be able to do with them as they grow and play in a campaign where what they do might matter beyond the end of the next fight, there will probably be a little more enthusiasm.

 

[Dragonbait]

I really think that for a lot of people the pre-made characters is what kills it. I've run 4ed games several times, before the rules lite came out, and few players are able to look past the pre-gens and judge the game on it's own. A HUGE part of the game is making and raising your own character, without it, it's like you are playing a board game.

For the record, my players are mildly optimistic about 4ed, but will probably not convert till a few books come out beyond the PH/DMG/MM.

Also for the record they are unaware of EnWorld and have the opinion that people on the gaming message boards nit-pick every little thing. So I feel that I could get a real reaction from them going into the game. They didn't know what to expect.

 

[Wolfspider]

someone who believes in a BS version of magic that claims it is real

Excuse me?

(I am Wiccan, by the way.)

 

[Steely Dan]

(I am Wiccan, by the way.)

Really, that's adorable?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Or upon my friends, who clearly suck for not liking 4E. 4E is Teh Sex, and anyone who doesn't agree is poorly informed somehow. Whatever.

Well, I think your friends pretty much made their minds up before hand. I wouldn't go so far to say that "your friends suck" for not liking 4E. And I wouldn't go so far to say that 4E is the "end all be all" of RPGs. But since you asked, I would say your friends were the main problem since they seemed to have their minds made up in advance.

 

[Wolfspider]

Really, that's adorable?

I'm afraid I don't understand your question.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, sort of. I haven't spoken to them, but I've e-mailed and heard back from them. After the game, and after I had given myself a chance to cool down about it (you know, gotten some sleep, had a good breakfast, that sort of thing), I hammered out an e-mail and sent it BCC to the guys. It went something like this:

"So about last night. Diablo2 was awesome as always, but I was really in the mood for some tabletop gaming. I got the feeling that you weren't really getting into the game I had prepared, though. I'm still a bit of a newcomer to this gaming group, and I've only been DMing with you guys for three games now...I'd love to get some feedback.

And if you ever pull out your laptop at my game table again, I will CUT you."

(Okay, I really didn't include that last line. I typed it, but I backspaced over it before I clicked "send.")

The first guy (let's call him Lock) replied, "you were doing fine and it was an interesting adventure setup and all but it just started to feel old you know? it would have been fine i guess if we had used our own characters instead of some sample ones but i know that they might not have worked with the new game you wanted to try. maybe next time we can roll up our own characters using the new rules it might be more fun that way." (Sorry, but Lock is apparently allergic to capitalization.)

The second guy (Stock, we shall call him) wrote, "It wasn't you, man, I think it was just the new game you brought. I had worked all day on my research paper, and I didn't feel much like having to learn something ELSE when I was trying to relax lol. I just didn't want to have to think that much. It was just a lot easier to just turn on diablo and click some goblins to death. will we get back to our regular game next week? I really like the stormlord prestige class in complete divine, do you think I can build one?"

Barrel (the third guy) didn't reply until late last night. "Yeah, sorry about that. You are doign fine as a dm and everyone looks forward to the games, which is something that hasn't happened in more than a year. Our last dm wasn't nearly as much of a hard ass as you are about attacks of opportunity (j/k) but he was always late and never really put any time into his adventures either. I think we were all just bummed that we wouldn't be continuing the game we started a few weeks ago and the new game felt like cheap imitation. Totally not your fault. I have a question, can we use some of the feats in Complete Warrior?" (he goes on to ask about certain feats for his elf monk.)

So that's that. From what I can tell, they weren't personally offended by 4E on principle; they were just in the mood for something different. I don't know what that means for the 4E rules system as a whole, or its appeal to your average gaming group, but there it is.

That puts them in a different light. But it would have been nice if they had said so earlier. Did they know you wanted to try 4E beforehand? Or did they expect a regular game?

But considering how invested they still are in their current 3E characters, I really recommend playing the 3E campaign to its end, even if takes a year. If you or they feel tired and need a break, you can always try to pull out a 4E game for a "short interlude" and see how it works then.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Let's not let discussion of religion - Wiccan or otherwise - derail this thread.

-Moderator

 

[SteveC]

One of the problems with these game sessions is that they're not really using the 4E rules: they're based on a homebrewed fan created set of fastplay rules.

A lot of people are excited about playing D&D, and it just seems silly that there aren't already an official set of fastplay rules for us to run with. I mean why not just clean up and release the fastplay rules the GMs had at D&D Experience? That way everyone would be using the CORRECT version of the rules at least.

Would that have made things better? In some cases, definitely yes!

(By the way, that's not a slam on the folks who've put together the current PHB Lite: you are doing a fantastic job--you're just doing WotC's job!)

--Steve

 

[ThirdWizard]

I really think that for a lot of people the pre-made characters is what kills it. snip A HUGE part of the game is making and raising your own character, without it, it's like you are playing a board game.

This is the main reason I will wait until the full rules are out to run 4e again. People like to play their characters. They don't like to play other people's characters. This can make a huge difference to gameplay. Investment in and buy into a PC can make or break a session.