My Grind Fix: Half hp, 2/3 Xp

[Starfox]

At 4th level, I started to feel the grind. As I've declared my first campaign an experimental ad playtest one, I decided to try this fix:

• All monsters have half Hp.
• All monsters give 2/3 normal xp
• All encounters stay at the same xp budget (meaning 50% more monsters)
• Effectively, the total encounter hp is 75% of the old. Starting monster damage is 150% normal, but falling faster.

Here is what I hope to achieve.

• Faster, deadlier combats, with the PCs often being outnumbered and outgunned - which is heroic.
• It has the distinct advantage of being entirely "under the hood" and not directly affecting anything in the player characters.
• It should increase the value of area spells such as Fireball - by reducing the hp of each monster and increasing the number, the damage of these powers increases.
• It makes formation and terrain more interesting, as fights spread out over a larger area.
• Minions become more competitive and xp-worthy (they are still at 1 hp)

Maybe I'm addressing a problem that goes away by itself at higher levels. We only tried a single solo fight this way, but it decreased the grind there significantly.

 

[the Jester]

Interesting. Please let us know how this goes- I for one am quite intrigued.

 

[Sadrik]

This is the same house rule that I came up with a few threads down. You can read it here.

First of all, I am a big fan of more guys on the table and for that reason I applaud the 2/3 xp. For every 2 guys you get a bonus third guy. It should be that hard to figure out by looking at it like that.

I have been debating if the pc's should also get half HP too. If they have fewer HP they will be somewhat forced into tactics that protect their HP more. I am not sure I agree with that but that is what my thought is.

I am very fond of the idea of it being all under the hood and only I the DM has to account for anything.

Anyway, I approve of the direction.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I've noted on occasion that 4E combat is more predictable/less "swingy" than 3E combat was. The removal of many "Save or Die" effects are of course a big part of that, but the grind is the other half of the apple. The DM can judge with a higher level of certainty how tough a given combat will be and tailor the adventures accordingly (e.g., "I want two "line 'em up, knock 'em down" fights and one "Holy crap! Run!!" surprise"). But the price you pay is that by half way through the fight the PCs know how it's gonna end too (and presumably so do the monsters, which makes you wonder why surrender doesn't happen more often).

So I guess you're trying to move that slider a little bit in the "previous editions" direction?

Looks very interesting. Please let us know how your playtests go.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I have been debating if the pc's should also get half HP too.

Given the OP's goals, I'd say 'No' to that. The whole point his changing just the monster's HP is that you can now have more monsters on the field at once. If you reduce the PC's HP they'll have to run away from fights like that. Scaling down the HP on both sides of the equation leaves the equation meaningfully unchanged in the very variables he wants to change.

 

[Starfox]

So I guess you're trying to move that slider a little bit in the "previous editions" direction?

Am I? Not sure. In previous editions, fights were rarely against multiple opponents, and very rarely were the players outnumbered - mainly because low-level enemies were such a small threat because of borderline AC. If the big bad hits you on a 15, even the medium bad and all the tiny bads will only hit you on a 20. Sure, you could kill almost anything in 3 rounds... And this will be more similar to that, but in a different way.

I think I'm trying to build from scratch, and to make 4E more 4E and move further away from previous encounters.

As for the half hp for player's idea, I think that was an alternate solution to balancing half hit point monsters, but I like my idea better. I don't want squishy players, I want epic but non-grindy fights. Of course, tastes can wary and there might be unforseen side effects.

 

[Markn]

My 2cp.

I am interested in how this goes. I know our group debated what would be the best option to speed up combat for 4e because of the grind.

Ultimately, we chose not to do something similar to this for two major reasons. The first is monster roles. Certain creatures are far more effective when other monsters of another role exist. Once that role is eliminated it drastically reduces the effectiveness of certain monsters. The second major reason is the bloodied value. Certain creatures are more effective when bloodied or not bloodied. With a reduction of hps this can have an advese affect on those creatures.

In the end, we decided to apply a half level bonus to all damages for both PCs and monsters. It maintains the balance of 4e with roles and seems to speed up combat marginally.

Additionally, an article I read on Wizards' site this week suggests to turn monsters into minions once they are no longer a threat (in other words once the majority have been taken down and there is little to no risk). I think this is a great option.

At any rate, let me know how your idea works out for you.

 

[Samurai]

This is very similar to the fix I'd use, 1/2 HPs and 75% XP.

 

[Starfox]

My Ultimately, we chose not to do something similar to this for two major reasons. The first is monster roles. Certain creatures are far more effective when other monsters of another role exist. Once that role is eliminated it drastically reduces the effectiveness of certain monsters. The second major reason is the bloodied value. Certain creatures are more effective when bloodied or not bloodied. With a reduction of hps this can have an advese affect on those creatures.

Halving all hps makes the difference between a lurker and a brute less, but it still does exist. I don't think this will be a problem, but am aware of it ad will try to be observant about it.


Monsters will spend less time at bloodied value - but also less time unbloodied. Also, players have abilities that key of monsters being bloodied, so this will affect both sides. Unless the group really manages to concentrate their damage on one creature at a time, taking them down from unblooded directly to defeated, I don't think this will be an issue. I'll try to keep an eye out.

We play Wednesdays, so we still only used this rule for a single session.

 

[Stalker0]

The only concern I would have is its more demanding on the DM (more monsters, more administration).

But I do think you could get some good results off it. I definitely would not change player hp with this model, more monsters means a lot more damage being thrown around.