My Group, Me, and My Forehead Vein (long/rant)

[Duncan Haldane]

DM Burnout!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this so far.

I think you are burnt out. Not being able to come up with a plan is a classic symptom. You need to put this campaign on hiatus for a little while.

What I suggest is wrapping up this adventure, and then try playing something else for a while - another D&D campaign, a different roleplaying game, or even just some non-RPG games for a while.

Also, with this break, I would consider advancing time a little upon your return. Encourage the players to give their characters a break for a while - maybe a marriage/love affair, study, learning a prestige class - there are plenty of reasons. Then you can re-evaluate the situation for a restart when you are ready.

HTH

Duncan

 

[Enkhidu]

Two Words:

Reoccurring villain.

You may not want a "stop the bad guy from doing 'x'" campaign, but rp heavy campaigns involving 'heros' tend to become just that (and in my opinion, heros really should be stopping bad guys from doing dasterdly deeds).

So, with a little tinkering, allow the party to discover that there really is a mastermind behind all these smaller villians that they've been taking dealing with. I can almost guarantee you that if you make that mastermind in some way "untouchable" (by being trusted nobility, or something similarly powerful in a political arena) so that they can't deal with him/her head on, you'll have hours of rp'ing enjoyment as you admittedly intellectual party figured out how to lay bare the mastermind's schemes and foil his plots.

Most likely just to spite him.

 

[Xarlen]

I can't give a fully evolved response, just yet, but I will tomorrow.

First, thank all of you for responding.

Duncan, they have. Infact, between the last plot and this current one, there was about a 2 month downtime. So the PCs aren't exaclty moving at a very swift pace.

They have delt with a oslyth. It was invisible, called up some walls of ice, illusions, dretches, and they hacked through the walls, before splattering it.

The only villain that's possible to recur would be a dwarven vampire, and an unintelligent one, to boot. He's got a grudge against them, but I think the party seriously wants to just get out of town, because they've been stuck in the city for a while. All the other 'villains' have been pretty much shut down, and killed.

The bat can simply sit in it's master's pocket, and poke it's head out, 'looking around'. Considering it's 10 intelligence, it can relay the information pretty well. 'It's humanoid, standing <insert location>'.

Edit: as to the lynch thing, the Natural lycanthrop was part of the party when they pretty much Saved the City from being turned into a cathedral to the goddess of Poison, Pain, and Disease. And, the half-dragon's brother was also part of the coup; not to mention she takes after her Elven father, so she doesn't look very draconic at All.

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

All very good stuff I agree with the burnout you said you've been at it for over a year! Take a break from DMing. Either play as a pc and let someone else DM or go away from it totally for a month or two. Then pick up a book of a genre you like not Fantasy and read. It gets the blood and brain juices flowing again. IMC a pbem the party become "spies" and I use that term loosely for a king. They are free to go whereever but must report back at certain intervals. This allows them to run amok around the countryside and perhaps start to uncover your insidious plot. And truthfully by this level they should have accquired "things" I agree not "magic" but at least a small tower or keep that people can live out of, the mage can create items which leads to many an adventure. Fighters can train the local miltia and then about that time an invader from across the sea appears. Hold the line and then send them off. Or by now the outer planes should be beckoning, have a devil running loose from a gate created by someone and the party needs to go into the gate to the other side to close it. Of course they may need help getting home. And finally, no one says that because you have a creature that can kill the party that they will. The same devil could be wanting to use the party for some other plan like killing a rival devil. Then you have the angnst of doing dirty work for a despicable boss til you are able to lay the smackdown on him.

 

[Benben]

Xarlan,

It sounds like your getting burnt out. When this happens to me I go on a media binge. Take some time out, relax and read a good book. Rent a bunch of movies, of different genres, and just let the ideas sink in.

For your party I think it would be interesting to have them work against one another. The werewolf in the party is just begging to be manipulated by a priestess of the moon.

Also you might want to give them a magic item that's part of a set. As they gain another part of the set the original item becomes more powerful, as does the new addition. This will allow them to focus on finding the rest, which will include research and travel.

 

[hong]

I also want to avoid dungeon crawls.

Is this because you don't like them personally, or because you believe your players don't like them? There's certainly nothing wrong with a spot of dungeon bashing every now and then. In fact, if your sessions haven't involved any dungeons up to now, your players may even appreciate the change of pace and the chance to indulge in some "retro" adventuring.

One big advantage of a dungeon crawl is that you don't have to wrack your brains to come up with plotlines, detailed encounters, etc. Everything is straightforward: you go in, you kill the monsters, and (if you're so inclined) you take the treasure. All you really need is an excuse to get the PCs into the dungeon, and that shouldn't be too hard. Heck, if you're completely at a loss, just appeal to their sense of greed. Even though you said the players aren't mercenary, I bet they wouldn't mind a bit of treasure hunting every now and then.

 

[Xarlen]

On my way to class. To Hong: My players are as follows, one who's 24, one who's in his early fourties (I would say this IS the brainiac, since he's a physics teacher), and the female player is older then that (A CS/Math student).

They know dungeon crawls. They Don't like them. Infact, I've been praised for NOT sending them into them. So, I don't Want to send them into one.

 

[Kugar]

when I get blocked I tend to decide on something and lock on.
Lets take the PHB. What's on the cover. Dungeons and dragons. Hmmm. If I haven't done either in a while that's the key! If you are dead set against dungeons, then Dragons. Work a dragon in the story.

But my players mop up everything I throw at them.

Well then up te challenge! Also, if you are avoiding the dungeon, are players might be resting more between encounters than planned. Without that whittling away of spells and hit points you need to crank up the CR to +6 or +8 to challenge them with a one shot. If you use this make sure you have some sort of story awards or level advancement will quicken.

Keep the bad guys from being alone. Solitary encounters are easier than the same EL encounter with multiple enemies.

If the players are overpowering the combats with strategy that's good. In order to challenge them you have to put them in situations that 1) give them less of an advantage or 2) use intelligent enimies (maybe even with class levels) to fight back just as nastily (if not outright dirty).

Kugar

 

[reapersaurus]

Xarlen - an insulting question here to confirm it isn't a problem:

Are you VERY knowledgable about the rules in 3E?
I ask because the way you are waving your arm and saying "They are mopping up everything I throw at them" seems a bit simplistic.

It strains my believability that players who don't know 3E rules that well (or was that only when they started?) would be able to waltz thru the dangers that can be brought to bear in D&D.

 

[Pielorinho]

They have delt with a oslyth. It was invisible, called up some walls of ice, illusions, dretches, and they hacked through the walls, before splattering it.

The bat can simply sit in it's master's pocket, and poke it's head out, 'looking around'. Considering it's 10 intelligence, it can relay the information pretty well. 'It's humanoid, standing <insert location>'.

I want to respond to these two points -- I think they might be illustrative of some things you can change to make your campaign more challenging for the players.

With the osyluth, you note that it can teleport without error at will, right? Unless there's a very good reason for it to fight to the death, it oughtta blip on outta there when the going gets too rough. It's not terrifying in a mano-a-mano fight, but it's got great subversive powers it can use behind the scenes.

In general, when you work with a monster with funky powers, spend some time brainstorming cruel and unusual uses of those powers. Consider how it would use the powers outside of combat. Consider how it would try to cover up its weaknesses. Consider how it would try to escape a losing battle. You may find that enemies thought about like this become much tougher than they've been previously.

Second, regarding the bat -- I invite you to try an experiment, involving two friends. One of them gets a long stick with a 6-foot piece of rope tied to it. The rope will represent an invisble opponent. The other friend stands nearby. This friend represents a bat familiar. You get a sword-sized twig (make it a twig for safety reasons -- a wiffle-bat will be better).

Close your eyes. Friend #1 dangles the rope somewhere near you and moves it around a lot. Friend #2 shouts directions to you to help you find the rope. "To your left! I mean right! Forward -- not that far forward! It's moved behind you now! Look out!" etc. You try to hit the moving rope with your twig, keeping your eyes closed.

You're being awful generous by allowing the bat to communicate to the wizard where an invisible opponent is. At best, I'd let the bat communicate a set of four squares; the wizard needs to choose one of the squares to attack, and if he chooses the correct square, he still suffers a 50% miss chance. Other PCs can witness the space that the wizard is attacking and come to their own conclusions about where to aim for.

The bat should, of course, be able to tell the wizard that something isn't showing up to blindsight. Although I'd allow a spellcaster that's experienced blindsight to create an illusion that would fool blindsight: a combination of tactile and sonic illusions oughtta do this effectively. If you do this, let your wizard know that he could probably create an illusions that would fool your bat, now that he knows how the bat "sees" things; that should be the only clue the wizard needs that this power isn't foolproof.

It sounds to me as if your players are interpreting the rules very favorably for themselves and that you're acceding to their interpretations. Given their maturity, I think they're likely to agree with you that their interpretations are skewing the game, and that there are other, more reasonable interpretations that y'all should start using.

Daniel