My group needs to feel pain
- Thread starter Cake Mage
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Pbartender
First Post
Concealment and cover.
Misdirection and treachery.
The samurai cannot attack what he cannot see. Have spellcasters and archers attack from concealing underbrush, or from behind covering fortifications. Even simple spells like blur and obscuring mist can give an advantage.
Darkness, fog and/or smoke in combination with Ghost Sound or is a great way to divide and conquer.
Use Illusions to lure them into traps and ambushes.
Use Enchantments to turn themselves against each other.
Misdirection and treachery.
The samurai cannot attack what he cannot see. Have spellcasters and archers attack from concealing underbrush, or from behind covering fortifications. Even simple spells like blur and obscuring mist can give an advantage.
Darkness, fog and/or smoke in combination with Ghost Sound or is a great way to divide and conquer.
Use Illusions to lure them into traps and ambushes.
Use Enchantments to turn themselves against each other.
ForceUser
Explorer
Last Monday I ran the first combat encounter of my new campaign. The group is composed of characters ranging in level from 1st to 4th, with the average level being 3rd. The 1st-level paladin won the initiative and charged his foe - an owlbear. He attacked and did 6 points of damage. The owlbear went next in the initiative order, and so attacked the paladin back - once for 8 damage, and once for 18 damage. The paladin only had 11 hit points, so he died.
The player was shocked at this outcome. I was a little surprised myself: surprised that a 1st-level character charged an owlbear, and surprised that the owlbear converted a critical hit on him. After the session I asked him why he'd charged the owlbear, and his reply was illuminating - he'd assumed that since his character was 1st-level, therefore all the characters were also 1st-level, therefore the owlbear must have been a 1st-level monster.
In other words, he died because he metagamed.
Like some of the other posters have said, shake things up. Vary the terrain, use monsters that require something more than raw force to defeat. Pit the party against some demons: the bebilith, for instance, can destroy armor with a special piercing attack, and the babau has a protective slime that can destroy any weapon that comes into contact with it. Throw in a few mind flayers with rings of invisibility. Axiomatic half-fiendish dire bears. Monks with the Improved Sunder feat. Flying wizards with protection from arrows...etc etc.
The last combat encounter I ran involved the party being attacked by feral goblins in the middle of the wilderness at night amid tall grasses that offered concealment bonuses to the short goblins. The goblins' burrows were likewise concealed by the 4-foot tall grass, and players who accidentally stepped into a burrow while trying to fight the goblins had to make Reflex saves or twist their ankles, reducing them to 1/4 movement. Spicing up the battlefield will go a long way to making a fight both more challenging and more interesting.
Good luck!
The player was shocked at this outcome. I was a little surprised myself: surprised that a 1st-level character charged an owlbear, and surprised that the owlbear converted a critical hit on him. After the session I asked him why he'd charged the owlbear, and his reply was illuminating - he'd assumed that since his character was 1st-level, therefore all the characters were also 1st-level, therefore the owlbear must have been a 1st-level monster.
In other words, he died because he metagamed.
Like some of the other posters have said, shake things up. Vary the terrain, use monsters that require something more than raw force to defeat. Pit the party against some demons: the bebilith, for instance, can destroy armor with a special piercing attack, and the babau has a protective slime that can destroy any weapon that comes into contact with it. Throw in a few mind flayers with rings of invisibility. Axiomatic half-fiendish dire bears. Monks with the Improved Sunder feat. Flying wizards with protection from arrows...etc etc.
The last combat encounter I ran involved the party being attacked by feral goblins in the middle of the wilderness at night amid tall grasses that offered concealment bonuses to the short goblins. The goblins' burrows were likewise concealed by the 4-foot tall grass, and players who accidentally stepped into a burrow while trying to fight the goblins had to make Reflex saves or twist their ankles, reducing them to 1/4 movement. Spicing up the battlefield will go a long way to making a fight both more challenging and more interesting.
Good luck!
Sounds like what you need is a good vampire. Dominate the Samurai - I know he's got crap for a will save. Send him to wrestle the cleric's holy symbol from him. Send in swarm of wolves to harass the rest of the group - I know they'll only last a couple rounds, but if they charge in the sorc will be unable to fireball the lot of them. Vampire fights to the 'death', turns to gaseous form, retreats to hidden coffin. Next day he can do it again.
When I did this, my group was a bit higher than yours. The cleric ended up Plane Shifting the samurai just to get rid of him.
When I did this, my group was a bit higher than yours. The cleric ended up Plane Shifting the samurai just to get rid of him.
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
Whatever happened to crowd control spells?
Hold Person
Spike Growth
Suggestion ("Protect the Sorceor's rear!" [where there is no threat])
These are very reasonable spells to be throwing at your party and sooner or later, someone will fail a saving throw who shouldn't ... and then you'll see some panic.
My favorite moment is when a new party has their main fighter blow his save against fear. Lovely.
Hold Person
Spike Growth
Suggestion ("Protect the Sorceor's rear!" [where there is no threat])
These are very reasonable spells to be throwing at your party and sooner or later, someone will fail a saving throw who shouldn't ... and then you'll see some panic.
My favorite moment is when a new party has their main fighter blow his save against fear. Lovely.
Tom Cashel
First Post
Want them to feel pain?
Run City of the Spider Queen.
Run City of the Spider Queen.
the Jester
Legend
I have to echo the consensus; don't be afraid to kill the samurai. Or other party members, either.
Why will the party fall apart without a samurai? Will they leave the game? Will the samurai's player make a new character?
Why will the party fall apart without a samurai? Will they leave the game? Will the samurai's player make a new character?
Nine Hands
Explorer
Cake Mage said:
Isn't this thread about pain? Killing a character is not painful. Torture the player and character. Start with the samurai. Have his lord call him back to his homeland for something. If he disobeys, make him ronin. Send ninja after him, poisoning his weapons, armor, etc. Steal his katana, later have it being sold at auction legally. Samurai should be lawful in alignment. Lawful people have to obey the law. This is a severe weakness.
Next in line is the cleric. Who is a cleric of Hoar (Assuran), correct? If so, Hoar is an easy god to mess with a character. Since Hoar is the god of revenge, give the cleric opportunities for revenge and plan to screw him over in the end.
The noble sounds like fun too. Does he have a character background? What is his family like? Have they pissed someone off who would want some revenge against him?
Just remember that you can get way more mileage out causing pain vs. killing a character. Play on thier weaknesses. For a lawful character, use the law against them. This is really important if the class they are taking needs to be a specific alignment, attempt to drive them out of that alignment prerequisite (without forcing them, no one likes that). Give them situations where it is easier or better to take the road that will change thier alignment, tempt them. That is your job.
With a couple of encounters like this (remember they do not have to be combat based), you might get them onto a new plot or something.
All in all, just remember not to take things too far, remember to have fun. Also try to make the players think you are not planning to hose them, but do it anyway. Eventually you will earn the reputation as a rat bastard GM.
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