"My hat of flight noes know limits"

[Sashi]

Ali Baba's flying carpet.
Baba Yaga's flying pestle.
Witches broomsticks.
The party in the Hobbit flew on Giant Eagles.
In Glory Road Star cast a flight spell that flew the whole party.
God only knows how many books have people getting carted about by Dragons.
One of the mages in the Belgariad flew about in Hawk shape.
The 'Crystal Warriors' books by Willian Forstchen had a bucket load of mages with superman style flight.

I'm pretty sure this is not an exhaustive list.

And yet only two of those were Superman-style flight. All the rest relied on eagles, broomsticks, carpets, or some other "thing that flies which you ride".

 

[WhatGravitas]

I'm pretty sure this is not an exhaustive list.

"Self-propelled". Like fly or superman.

So:
Ali Baba's flying carpet. -> Not self-propelled.
Baba Yaga's flying pestle. -> Not self-propelled.
Witches broomsticks. -> Not self-propelled.
The party in the Hobbit flew on Giant Eagles. -> Not self-propelled.
In Glory Road Star cast a flight spell that flew the whole party.
God only knows how many books have people getting carted about by Dragons. -> Not self-propelled.
One of the mages in the Belgariad flew about in Hawk shape.
The 'Crystal Warriors' books by Willian Forstchen had a bucket load of mages with superman style flight.

So only two superman style. And transmuting into a Hawk is hardly fly.

The flying carpet is AFAIK in, and riding mounts will probably more of a DM decision.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Leatherhead]

And yet only two of those were Superman-style flight. All the rest relied on eagles, broomsticks, carpets, or some other "thing that flies which you ride".

The question here is; Does the broomstick fly because of the witch, or does the witch fly because of the broomstick?

 

[Andor]

I don't see your problem. Most five story buildings are in towns and cities. You know, places with lots of building of various heights, including four story buildings. A little phantom steed hopscotch can be good clean fun.

Yeah, 'cause nothing says "Epic hero" like an airsick bag.

As for the fighter getting screwed out of the fun because he didn't fly....

Just how badly was your GM trying to screw you? Flying carpet, boots of flying, Flying mounts, Potions of Flight, etc, etc... In every game I've played any high level character, in any edition, who didn't have at least emergency flight was deliberately gimping himself regardless of class.

 

[WhatGravitas]

The question here is; Does the broomstick fly because of the witch, or does the witch fly because of the broomstick?

Irrelevant. The question here is: Does the witch fly without broomstick or not?

And that's a sure "no".

Flying carpet, boots of flying, Flying mounts, Potions of Flight, etc, etc... In every game I've played any high level character, in any edition, who didn't have at least emergency flight was deliberately gimping himself regardless of class.

Wasn't that one of the things many criticised about 3.X? That magic items were so crucial to high level games?

Cheers, LT.

 

[hong]

Yeah, 'cause nothing says "Epic hero" like an airsick bag.

As for the fighter getting screwed out of the fun because he didn't fly....

Just how badly was your GM trying to screw you? Flying carpet, boots of flying, Flying mounts, Potions of Flight, etc, etc... In every game I've played any high level character, in any edition, who didn't have at least emergency flight was deliberately gimping himself regardless of class.

... or you could just nerf flight. Seems to save an awful lot of trouble.

 

[Andor]

And transmuting into a Hawk is hardly fly.

True. God knows people have never looked up at birds and thought "I'd like to do that."

Surely all those fantasy stories with flying people were spawned from some other source. Especially the old ones where wizards and witches turn themselves into Hawks, Geese and Swans to get about. *roll eyes*

 

[Andor]

Wasn't that one of the things many criticised about 3.X? That magic items were so crucial to high level games?

Sure, but that was usually aimed at the "Big Six" items. The ability boosters, cloak of resistance, ring of protection, etc.

Few people attacked utility items like bags of holding or Never-empty bigmac boxes, or Flying Broomsticks of endless butt splinters.

 

[hong]

True. God knows people have never looked up at birds and thought "I'd like to do that."

Surely all those fantasy stories with flying people were spawned from some other source. Especially the old ones where wizards and witches turn themselves into Hawks, Geese and Swans to get about. *roll eyes*

And you can still fly in 4E. You just have to be high level.

Man, I've seen better "X is useless now" threads on the Guild Wars forums.

 

[WhatGravitas]

True. God knows people have never looked up at birds and thought "I'd like to do that."

Surely all those fantasy stories with flying people were spawned from some other source. Especially the old ones where wizards and witches turn themselves into Hawks, Geese and Swans to get about. *roll eyes*

Note that the fly was italicized. Indicating the spell.

The point is: All the means of flying (including items) have some sort of drawback - as a hawk, you cannot swing a sword. If you have a mount or a flight-enabling item, it can be shot/targeted/whatever.

And since flying carpets are still in, as are flying beasts - I think the hate is mainly directed against superman flight.

Also: Too much superman flight would make D&D even more wuxia than before. Do you really want that all are flying around like in an anime, if you hit epic level? :\

Cheers, LT.