"My hat of flight noes know limits"

[malraux]

Unless the creature who can't fly also has a crossbow, in fact the creature on the ground can duck for cover and plink away at the guy in open air, giving a clear advantage for the guy on the ground behind cover

And for the rest of the time, well damn they managed to use tactics to defeat something, is that really such a bad thing in a non-competitive game? Or does DnD demand everyone stand toe-to-toe and hack each other mindlessly to bits?

True, DnD crossbows can shoot straight up as well as they can straight down. But as to tactics, permanent fly can become a non-tactic, by removing any real consideration of how the situation on the ground is. Or at least that's what I hear. It never was a problem in any game I played in, though in the last session my flying cleric almost broke the encounters.

 

[keterys]

Flight is 'cool', but it's generally bad for actual game play and often overpowered.

So flight that is rare and short-lived sounds about right. Moving right along.

 

[Parlan]

What annoys me more is that with the 5-minute max. duration, they have taken flight out as a long-range travel option...and I see long-range flight as a far preferable design option to teleport (or walking; too slow).

That's funny, b/c I see have flight as a relatively-easily accessible option to be a major design flaw.

Impassible mountains/desert/forest all become meaningless if you can fly over them.

Out of curiosity, what's your issue with walking/riding taking a while? The DM can hand-wave the distances involved ("So you leave Rome. 5 months later you're in Carthage. What do you want to do now?")

Even if there are random encounters along the way, the DM can hand-wave them too, especially once the PCs are higher level.

("So you leave Rome. 5 months later you're in Carthage. You wiped out 2 goblin war parties, an owlbear and a bunch of pirates on the way. What do you want to do now?")

 

[Victoly]

So... lemme get this straight. Despite the numerous reasons why flight was mostly removed from the game, you have a powerful counter-argument meant to sway our opinion, and that argument goes like this:

Flying is fun,
flying is fun.
Flying is fun!
Flying is fun...
Oh! And flying is fun!



Let's not forget that flight as a method of travel works against a lot of the "points of light" world-model that's been established. Being able to just fly up and see what's beyond the forest kinda takes the fun out of it.

Also, "animae"? You know that "ae" is normally pronounced like the letter "E", right?

Finally, I think Hong wins this thread.

 

[Hussar]

I would point out that flight as a means of distance travel has not been removed from the game since you can apparently purchase hippogrif in the PHB IIRC from one of the previews.

 

[Korgoth]

Benefits of flight:

• It is part of the genere of almost every fantasy setting ever made. Flying ships. Flying monsters. Basically flying ninja animae dudes.

• 
  
  Um.
  
  No.
  
  Remember when Aragorn flew around giving Sauron roundhouse kicks to the eye and then Froda (13-year old ninja / schoolgirl / swordmaster / archmage / starship pilot / nymphomaniac) totally did a flying spin kick and slam-dunked the one ring into Mt. Doom? Neither do I. Nor do I recall similar shenanigans in Conan or any other relevant fantasy authors.
  
  On the plus side, this means that 4E is officially less anime than 3E. Korgoth is pleased.

 

[Imban]

I would point out that flight as a means of distance travel has not been removed from the game since you can apparently purchase hippogrif in the PHB IIRC from one of the previews.

It's kinda funny. Both the PHB and DMG insist that people flying around on hippogriffs is totally a thing in 4e - a flavor line about dwarven hippogriff cavalry, a suggested "fantastic flavor" tidbit in the DMG of hippogriff stables for a city that the wealthy use...

...but you still can't buy hippogriffs. Sorry.

 

[hong]

Remember when Aragorn flew around giving Sauron roundhouse kicks to the eye and then Froda (13-year old ninja / schoolgirl / swordmaster / archmage / starship pilot / nymphomaniac) totally did a flying spin kick and slam-dunked the one ring into Mt. Doom? Neither do I. Nor do I recall similar shenanigans in Conan or any other relevant fantasy authors.

You've given me an awesome idea for a Lord of the Rings/Final Fantasy crossover.

 

[Zil]

Problems with flight:

• It is hard for most people to really think in three dimensions. As humans we only need the two + time for the most part.
• The third dimension is really hard to model on a battle map.

• It's not that hard. All you need is a lot of those triangular plastic pizza "tents" that you sometimes see in pizzas. Stack 'em up and you can get height levels. You can even fit multiple minis in the same stack at different levels. It works great (until someone kicks the table and knocks over all the stacks).
  

  [*]It invalidates certain skills. Why balance on a ledge when you can just fly over it?

  Yes, it is true that fly spells kind of take something away from rogues/thieves with their climb and balance skills, but ....
  
  Are you sure they took fly away in 4E? I thought they were just moving it up to the paragon tier?

 

[Imban]

Are you sure they took fly away in 4E? I thought they were just moving it up to the paragon tier?

They didn't, though the "for five minutes" flight starts at level 10 and is the maximum pretty much everyone gets.

Look to Cloud Chariot, Cleric Utility 22, for all your permanent overland flight needs, or Flying Carpets (lv20 Wondrous Items) for nerf-tastic but permanent flight.